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The Pointsfix, Tildeth's poll, Homey, and the Jelly community [message #405005] Fri, 02 October 2009 13:08 Go to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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what i'm about to reveal is certainly not the worst stain on the anti-pointsfix-crowd's pants, but it's probably the funniest.

quick summary of what happened.
- discussion took place on renegadeforums about whether each community should have the choice whether to use the pointsfix or not.
- spoony says they should. TT says they should. tildeth says they should. trouble is tildeth was lying through his teeth, he actually opposes the idea - he proved it in the case of clanwars.cc.
i shall be specific here. the rightful admin+league owner - that's me - decided i wanted to use the pointsfix in the clan ladder. i went to great lengths to encourage debate on the subject. unfortunately a few individuals had other ideas.
they couldn't debate the actual subject at all, so instead they resorted to character assassination, endlessly lying to everyone to try to influence opinion, outright disregarding and even subverting the wishes of the duly appointed renadmin, and most crucially, lying to the server hosts to try to get the pointsfix removed - because they knew honesty wouldn't get the job done. later, i tried again to get the pointsfix implemented, this time in its full incarnation - i.e. with the vehicle-alignment fix - and the community outright refused to even try it. later still, they lied about this saying they DID test it.
now, you can take one of two sides here. you can -a- side with the duly appointed renadmin and rightful owner of the league in his league decisions, or you can -b- support the people (all of whom had really shitty reputations when it comes to actually following the rules) who resorted to such despicable tactics to subvert the admin's wishes.

if it's -b-, and it was -b- in tildeth's case, well, that's your opinion. but it proves four things.
1. you don't place the slightest value on honesty or mature debate.
2. you don't place the slightest value on fair play (again, pretty much everyone involved in the above behaviour has some rap sheet or other)
3. you don't have the slightest respect for the authority of the only person who can be bothered hosting a league for you
4. you DON'T support an individual community's right to choose whether to use the pointsfix or not.

4 is the important one. people say: each community ought to choose for itself whether to use the pointsfix or not. i agree. TT agrees. BUT if you look at what happened at clanwars and you side with -b- instead of -a-, you DON'T agree. you just don't.

anyway, back to the present. this debate over whether the pointsfix should be mandatory or optional. clearly it should be optional (although it should replace the pointsbug as the default system).
- after losing this argument, tildeth changes the subject and says MORE PEOPLE LIKE THE POINTSBUG THAN THE POINTSFIX SPOONY!
- spoony says so what? we're giving servers a choice whether to use it. some will use the pointsfix, some will use the pointsbug, players can choose where to play, and everybody's happy. (the only problem here is the jelly community's unwarranted and unchallengeable 4-year-long chokehold on the game listings, ensuring that no new server has a hope of flourishing)
- tildeth says HAHA YOU'RE SCARED OF THE FACTS! MAKE THE POLL! WE WILL WIN BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY!
- spoony again says: so what even if this IS true? but ok, go ahead and make a thread, but it must be a thread where people publicly reply to it, NOT an anonymous poll (otherwise people can use multiple accounts, and the anti-pointsfix crowd has already been caught doing this)
- the thread is created by tildeth. he boasts in two separate threads on the jelly forums boasting about the landslide that's about to happen and how spoony is about to be proven wrong (even though i didn't dispute what he was saying, i just said it was irrelevant since servers will have the choice)
- spoony feels a bit sorry for tildeth at this point and lowers the bar for him. i say: see if you can get a 1 in 5 minority of players in renegade to agree with you.
- the poll is crushingly defeated, tildeth is extremely embarrassed and deletes his posts on the subject. he then lies on the jelly forum, saying he deleted it due to "popular demand". no, he deleted it because he knew he couldn't possibly even achieve a 1 in 5 minority, let alone the overwhelming majority he said he would get.
now, jelly moderators (mostly homey, it seems) also systematically delete the relevant posts on the jelly-forum, and cover up the entire thing.

this is certainly not the worst stain on the anti-pointsfix crowd's pants, but it's probably the funniest.
homey tried to justify this coverup by saying it was all off topic. i must admit, i always respected homey, but this is indefensible.
this poll is INCREDIBLY relevant to the pointsfix debate, as far as the jelly community goes. why? because "most of us don't like the pointsfix" is the only argument they've presented which hadn't been conclusively debunked. for example, first they said: "we shouldn't use this because westwood didn't intend it, case closed." it was proven westwood DID intend this, and suddenly they change their argument to "it doesn't matter whether westwood intended it, that's not the point at all." (lol)

i will now explain exactly why we know homey was lying when he said why he deleted all this. i will simply give just one example of a far worse offender than tildeth's poll.

i posted some ideas about the official ladder on the jelly forum. i said we think we may implement a system whereby the more strategic server settings are worth more ladder. for example, 0 start credits is more strategic than 9999 start credits. and the pointsfix is more strategic than the pointsbug. i put this concept up for debate, and nobody could refute it, although there were some very odd attempts made. i will cite the most absurd.
clearshot is a jelly moderator, a long-time clanwars player, and ardent opponent of the pointsfix. he said nobody should use the TT ladder if spoony's running it, because he has a history of abusing admin power like he did at clanwars.cc.
he gave A LOT of examples, all of them very vague. i challenged him to be specific. i will list a few of his specific accusations.
- when spoony was the renadmin and the leader of the clan [TC], spoony allowed the [TC] player Soul to get away with pointpushing (pointpushing is a way of cheating on the clanwars ladder, basically refers to reporting fake games, stuff like that)
- spoony abused his admin powers to punish clans for breaking rules that didn't exist yet
- when SS and Whiskey both pointpushed on the same month, spoony let whiskey get away with it. and the reason it happened at all was because spoony was a terrible admin.
- later, spoony and whiskey were the admins and both of them pointpushed in the same month. also in the same month, clearshot was wrongly suspended for pointpushing when he didn't do anything wrong

these are a few examples, there were plenty more (there were about a dozen, in total). ALL of them have one thing in common - they were all completely fabricated. every single one was conclusively disproven. most of them were so stupid that most of the clanwars community shouldn't even NEED evidence to see through them. for example, he accused me of abusing admin powers at a period in time OVER A YEAR BEFORE I BECAME THE ADMIN.
what's more, clearshot actually IS a convicted pointpusher on the clanwars ladder (which does somewhat invalidate his credibility to criticise the way i want to run any ladder). he lied about this over and over and over again (he made over ten public denials, saying he didn't pointpush) - this was disproven too.

so, his endless stream of lies were very easy to blow out of the water, whereas the one accusation i make against clearshot - which he denies again and again - is proven correct. but what happens then? does ANYBODY at jelly condemn clearshot for this ridiculous pile of concocted slander? does ANYBODY support me, pointing out that i'm the only person who could be bothered hosting a clan ladder for them at all and I actually did it pretty damn fairly? no, not a peep. nobody minds at all. (imagine the OUTRAGE if I did what clearshot tried to get away with here... after all, i get treated with contempt just for using the quote function effectively). what's more, there are a few people who were involved in the thread who KNEW clearshot was lying and that i was innocent, but intentionally kept quiet and flamed me instead - most obviously simpee and tildeth.

now, why do i mention this? simple. homey. homey is an old clan mate of mine, and a previous clanwars league admin himself. of all the people on the jelly community who ought to know that what clearshot was trying to feed everybody was a steaming sack of horseshit, homey is right at the top of the list. if he had any of the honesty or any decency i used to respect in him, he would've AT LEAST made a brief post supporting me and pointing out clearshot was lying, either before he was caught, or after he was caught. he did neither, although he still involved himself in the threads.

and yet when tildeth's poll horribly loses, he systematically purges it from existence and says "it's all off topic". i don't know how anybody can seriously believe this.

Unleash the Renerageâ„¢

Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful

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