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flame tank right click [message #473101] Mon, 13 August 2012 10:04 Go to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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why was the right click left nozzle double damage removed from the flame tank?

Any tank can basically kill any infantry easily, except the flame tank now...


It's all part of the big illusion that we perpetuate on ourselves and in turn is perpetuated upon us. When we believe, we engage the illusion. When we stop believing we shatter the illusion and shatter ourselves in the process. Because we are, part of it.

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Re: flame tank right click [message #473102 is a reply to message #473101] Mon, 13 August 2012 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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as a balance thing, i think both barrels should do double against infantry (if that's possible)
the flame tank in C&C 1 would melt any infantry unit with two quick blasts, but in Renegade it completely sucks moth cocks against them (as does the flamethrower soldier)

at least with the right click bug, flame tanks were able to contend with infantry at close range (like they were intended to)


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473103 is a reply to message #473101] Mon, 13 August 2012 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ehhh is currently offline  ehhh
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because it was a bug in the coding or sommet
Re: flame tank right click [message #473105 is a reply to message #473101] Mon, 13 August 2012 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hypnos is currently offline  Hypnos
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Colonel
It might of been unintentional, but it makes a lot of sense.

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Caveman wrote on Fri, 21 January 2011 08:26

Well this topic is still going on. I have to say I haven't watched much Anime recently (maybe a year or so) the last thing I saw was GITS (for the third time)

Im not too sure whether I just dont enjoy Anime anymore or whether its just I dont have time really to shit and watch it.






Re: flame tank right click [message #473106 is a reply to message #473101] Mon, 13 August 2012 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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It makes no sense to do double-damage from only one nozzle. It makes no sense to do double-damage at all.
Re: flame tank right click [message #473107 is a reply to message #473106] Mon, 13 August 2012 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 19:37

It makes no sense to do double-damage from only one nozzle. It makes no sense to do double-damage at all.


Well it's still the same amount of damage, since the other nozzle won't be used.

Instead of 50/50, it's 100/0, which allows for more specialized aiming


It's all part of the big illusion that we perpetuate on ourselves and in turn is perpetuated upon us. When we believe, we engage the illusion. When we stop believing we shatter the illusion and shatter ourselves in the process. Because we are, part of it.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/345jxok.jpg
Re: flame tank right click [message #473108 is a reply to message #473101] Tue, 14 August 2012 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gen_Blacky is currently offline  Gen_Blacky
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they fixed something with the muzzle bone.

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Re: flame tank right click [message #473109 is a reply to message #473101] Tue, 14 August 2012 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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from a C&C 1 perspective, it hardly looks fixed at all
the flame tank, which was the best anti-infantry vehicle in the game basically, is now the worst at killing infantry
i'm sure harvesters get more kills on average

but if you insist


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473112 is a reply to message #473101] Tue, 14 August 2012 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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As it stands now, the flamer is the only tank in the game which can't kill infantry at any rate unless they are half-dead already, or stupid enough to be squished.

You can easily rip heads apart with hummers, buggies and apcs, headshot with meds and lights, artys and mrls goes without saying, once you figure it out you can regularly double bodyshot or headshot people with stanks and mammoths of course just rape.

But flame tanks? They can't even get 2 bars off infantry.

It's kind of retarded since it's been a standard thing for TEN YEARS to use right click against infantry and NOBODY ever saw it as a bug, I always thought it was part of the game, just like mrls right-click.

Why would you remove that?


It's all part of the big illusion that we perpetuate on ourselves and in turn is perpetuated upon us. When we believe, we engage the illusion. When we stop believing we shatter the illusion and shatter ourselves in the process. Because we are, part of it.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/345jxok.jpg
Re: flame tank right click [message #473115 is a reply to message #473112] Tue, 14 August 2012 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ehhh is currently offline  ehhh
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well the flame tank destroys any vechicle, making it shit at killing infantry, seems fair.
Re: flame tank right click [message #473123 is a reply to message #473101] Tue, 14 August 2012 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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in order to do any damage whatsoever, it has to be right next to its target
more or less
it's realistic to say that fire would melt through tank armor more easily than it would human flesh and body armor


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473124 is a reply to message #473115] Tue, 14 August 2012 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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ehhh wrote on Tue, 14 August 2012 13:15

well the flame tank destroys any vechicle, making it shit at killing infantry, seems fair.


Well the way it used to be before 4.0 is that any tank can basically destroy any tank (save for the buggy and hummer, which I've only seen happen in CWs) and kill any kind of infantry in one on one.

Now the Flame tank is the ONLY tank that can't kill any infantry capable of doing acceptable damage one on one.

If you wanted to cover a nuke with a flame tank in the past you could drive back and forth and drive back and right-click hotties in the face if they wanted to mote you, now all you can possibly do to kill them is squish them, and they will remote you quite easy.

The flame tank is mostly a rush-to-the-base tank, and it is now MUCH less capable of doing this since it has no way of defending against infantry, so it can't hold out as long as it used to. I remember I used to camp behind the wf on islands with an early flamer if I got my motes/timed off. This is now completely impossible since you can't kill infantry around the corner anymore


It's all part of the big illusion that we perpetuate on ourselves and in turn is perpetuated upon us. When we believe, we engage the illusion. When we stop believing we shatter the illusion and shatter ourselves in the process. Because we are, part of it.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/345jxok.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 14 August 2012 23:50]

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Re: flame tank right click [message #473125 is a reply to message #473112] Wed, 15 August 2012 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
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Major-Payne wrote on Tue, 14 August 2012 21:24

As it stands now, the flamer is the only tank in the game which can't kill infantry at any rate unless they are half-dead already, or stupid enough to be squished.

You can easily rip heads apart with hummers, buggies and apcs, headshot with meds and lights, artys and mrls goes without saying, once you figure it out you can regularly double bodyshot or headshot people with stanks and mammoths of course just rape.

But flame tanks? They can't even get 2 bars off infantry.

It's kind of retarded since it's been a standard thing for TEN YEARS to use right click against infantry and NOBODY ever saw it as a bug, I always thought it was part of the game, just like mrls right-click.

Why would you remove that?

Because the reason it did that was a bug, one that was noticable with other aspects of the game. I'm not sure if the flametank issue was discussed at that time.


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Re: flame tank right click [message #473134 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reaver11 is currently offline  Reaver11
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http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?t=msg&th=29751&prevloaded=1& rid=22503&start=0

Here is the old topic concerning the flamer. (starts on page 2)
Re: flame tank right click [message #473138 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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we might just mod flame tank damage on Jelly Marathon and set it back
i know you're trying to help, but that one doesn't


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473139 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xpert is currently offline  Xpert
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The flame tank fix should be a server side option. I didn't think the flame tank right click was a bug. I also thought it was just part of the game and it was great in taking out infantry at close range. Now it's useless against infantry.

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Re: flame tank right click [message #473140 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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it seems buggy because it's only one side, but it was necessary
how hard would it be to make flame tanks do double damage from both nozzles against infantry only on Jelly Marathon?


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473141 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StealthEye is currently offline  StealthEye
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It's definitely a bug, they misnamed the barrel names in one part of the code. If they would have intended this behavior, then they would have implemented it differently, and they would not have had the weird "dummy flame shows up" thing.

A totally different question is if it works out for gameplay. I think there's two options: make the flame visually only fire from the left barrel on right click and apply double the damage, or the current solution, where there is no difference between left and right click. The former would possibly be the best solution to affect gameplay as little as possible, although the latter was what was originally intended by Westwood.


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Re: flame tank right click [message #473142 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gen_Blacky is currently offline  Gen_Blacky
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you can reproduce the bug for flame tanks easily serverside without removing the fix. No point in removing it in case maps use other weapons with a similar problem.

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[Updated on: Wed, 15 August 2012 18:01]

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Re: flame tank right click [message #473143 is a reply to message #473139] Wed, 15 August 2012 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
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Xpert wrote on Wed, 15 August 2012 20:50

The flame tank fix should be a server side option. I didn't think the flame tank right click was a bug. I also thought it was just part of the game and it was great in taking out infantry at close range. Now it's useless against infantry.

Point is that it does fixes some other bugs with weapons muscles. So, if you need it changed, you can. Just mod your server. Afaik TT delivers the tools you need.


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Re: flame tank right click [message #473150 is a reply to message #473101] Wed, 15 August 2012 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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rather than get the one-side-does-double thing working again, why not just make both barrels do double the normal damage when attacking infantry

that's do-able, right?


liquidv2
Re: flame tank right click [message #473154 is a reply to message #473150] Thu, 16 August 2012 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 15 August 2012 22:19

rather than get the one-side-does-double thing working again, why not just make both barrels do double the normal damage when attacking infantry

that's do-able, right?



But that would make it easier for everyone altogether Sad


It's all part of the big illusion that we perpetuate on ourselves and in turn is perpetuated upon us. When we believe, we engage the illusion. When we stop believing we shatter the illusion and shatter ourselves in the process. Because we are, part of it.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/345jxok.jpg
Re: flame tank right click [message #473163 is a reply to message #473150] Thu, 16 August 2012 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
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liquidv2 wrote on Thu, 16 August 2012 07:19

rather than get the one-side-does-double thing working again, why not just make both barrels do double the normal damage when attacking infantry

that's do-able, right?


Should be, using the armor.ini afaik. However it's a rather crude solution when you can also "fix" it properly, by making the flame tank as you intend. Should not be that much more work I think.


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Re: flame tank right click [message #473164 is a reply to message #473101] Thu, 16 August 2012 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reborn is currently offline  reborn
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I can't be sure, as it was a long time ago when I tried, but I think changing values in the armor.ini on the server acuss the client to mis-match.

I'm not sure that there is an elegant way of increasing damage server-side, although with TT that may no longer be the case.

I know it's deffinately possible, but the implementation I am thinking of would look pretty shitty from a programming perspective.



Re: flame tank right click [message #473178 is a reply to message #473101] Thu, 16 August 2012 13:56 Go to previous message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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client damage hook, check if the target is soldiergameobj and the shooter a flame tank (via the definition for quick look up)

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[Updated on: Thu, 16 August 2012 13:57]

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