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Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466574] Mon, 23 April 2012 22:02 Go to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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in the original, bugged points system, sniping a green-health stealth tank with a ramjet yields a person 22 points
at the same time it does, what? 5 damage?

my question is, why does sniping a stealth tank give 10 more points than sniping a green-health mammoth tank, which actually costs 600 credits more?

the system is bugged, but it is at the very least consistent with how it is bugged
except with stealth tanks; anyone have any theories?


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466582 is a reply to message #466574] Tue, 24 April 2012 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie or NuneGa is currently offline  Jamie or NuneGa
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Revealing a stealth tank is helpful to your team who can't see it.

Everyone can see mamouths


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466592 is a reply to message #466574] Tue, 24 April 2012 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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so your guess is that, because they are invisible, they give off more points? makes sense in a way, but i doubt it

has anyone played C&C 1?


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466597 is a reply to message #466592] Tue, 24 April 2012 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ehhh is currently offline  ehhh
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thought ramjets do 2 damage to meds and mammoths, and 5 damage to stanks.
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466600 is a reply to message #466574] Tue, 24 April 2012 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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nope; 5 damage to both stanks and meds/mammies/apcs/whatever

and yet for some reason stealth tanks give 22 points per hit, even though they cost far less than a mammoth tank (which only gives 12)

the question is why

i have a theory; anyone else aside from NuneGa have a thought? and has anyone played C&C 1?


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466612 is a reply to message #466600] Wed, 25 April 2012 04:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie or NuneGa is currently offline  Jamie or NuneGa
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liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 05:20

nope; 5 damage to both stanks and meds/mammies/apcs/whatever

and yet for some reason stealth tanks give 22 points per hit, even though they cost far less than a mammoth tank (which only gives 12)

the question is why

i have a theory; anyone else aside from NuneGa have a thought? and has anyone played C&C 1?



My theory was a 1 second answer...

Curious to know yours


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466622 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 25 April 2012 06:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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Because they have less health than a Mammoth Tank? Also it's pretty simple to make it so jets get like 1 point/credit for hitting a tank.

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466631 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 25 April 2012 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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it's not about changing the points; i'm just curious as to why

other tanks (lights, meds, flamers) have less health than a mammoth tank; why do they only give 10 points for being sniped?

here's my theory

in C&C 1 it's apparent that stealth tanks do not have heavy armor like light and med tanks do; they get chewed up by apcs and humvees/buggies, whereas other tanks can generally shrug it off like a case of fleas

since Renegade is an adaptation of C&C 1 it makes sense to me that stealth tanks should have had medium armor all along and not heavy
that means they would take more damage from snipers and bullet weapons like they did in C&C 1
the inflated points gained would make more sense because it would be closer to the bugged point consistency with all other vehicles

sniping a stank with a ramjet would give you 22 points and do 20 damage instead of just 5
apcs shooting stanks would actually do more bullet damage to them, more or less earning the points because their shots are actually doing something
the inflated value would be earned because the damage would be consistent
this, as opposed to an apc shooting a harvester or heavy armored vehicle and getting a pretty consistent points to damage ratio

long story short i think stealth tanks were meant to have medium armor, the class that resides between light (buggies, arties, helis, etc.) and heavy (tanks, apcs, harv, etc.)

woo hoo


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466644 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 25 April 2012 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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Should replace Stealth Tanks with Recon Bikes for one day and give them heavy armour tbh

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466646 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 25 April 2012 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jamie or NuneGa is currently offline  Jamie or NuneGa
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Good theory, maybe a medium armour setting was on Westwood's to do list before EA rushed ren out.

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466652 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 25 April 2012 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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medium armor is an option

Jelly 1 used to run an armor mod on arties, mrls, and helis
the vehicle armor took reduced damage from sniper fire, but the health did not

once the vehicle was past green health it would generally die very quickly, but it gave people a chance to survive more than 5 seconds on populated flying maps and whatnot

recon bikes should be a separate option, and they should have either medium or heavy armor
recon chems would be god damn epic


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466751 is a reply to message #466574] Fri, 27 April 2012 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gen_Blacky is currently offline  Gen_Blacky
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because stanks give more damage points.

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[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2012 09:17]

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466759 is a reply to message #466751] Fri, 27 April 2012 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xpert is currently offline  Xpert
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Gen_Blacky wrote on Fri, 27 April 2012 12:16

because stanks give more damage points.

This.

A Mammoth Tank is worth 0.060 damage.
A Stealth Tank is worth 0.110 damage.



If you're going to ask why they give more damage points, then your answer would be, that's how Westwood left it.


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466762 is a reply to message #466574] Fri, 27 April 2012 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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odd

the pointmod makes true mathematical sense, but if what you say is true then the pointmod is flawed (or would be, in the eyes of Westwood)

fix it Spoony


edit -
i still think that stealth tanks having medium armor instead of heavy would be a good thing
then Westwood having them as a higher damage to points value would make more sense since more things tend to damage them (or did at least, in C&C 1)
since Renegade is based off of it and all


liquidv2

[Updated on: Fri, 27 April 2012 13:37]

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466789 is a reply to message #466574] Sat, 28 April 2012 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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Percentage.

Taking all the health off a havoc/sak gives you 50 points, the kill gives 50 as well.

5/400 multiplied by 900
5/1200 multiplied by 1500

then add points bug to that.


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #466795 is a reply to message #466574] Sat, 28 April 2012 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467562 is a reply to message #466574] Sun, 20 May 2012 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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missed this thread, sorry

its easy

points earned (if the point bug is fixed, that is) = based on two things. value of the target, and how much damage you're doing to it

stank = high cost and low health.
compare it to the med tank - similar cost, med has twice the health. therefore you get just over twice the points per shot against a stank than against a med.


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467628 is a reply to message #466574] Mon, 21 May 2012 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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when the pointmod is on it makes sense; that wasn't the point of my topic
i was wondering why the original points system is inconsistent in the case of stealth tanks
i thought that perhaps Westwood intended for stanks to have medium armor (more like they did in C&C 1) and that perhaps bullets and snipers were meant to injure them more than they presently do
it would explain why the credits and points gained for damaging them seems so inflated; if the damage were higher as well perhaps it wouldn't seem inflated at all
it might even seem consistent with the rest of the original, bugged points


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467774 is a reply to message #467628] Wed, 23 May 2012 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 21 May 2012 11:36

when the pointmod is on it makes sense; that wasn't the point of my topic
i was wondering why the original points system is inconsistent in the case of stealth tanks
i thought that perhaps Westwood intended for stanks to have medium armor (more like they did in C&C 1) and that perhaps bullets and snipers were meant to injure them more than they presently do
it would explain why the credits and points gained for damaging them seems so inflated; if the damage were higher as well perhaps it wouldn't seem inflated at all
it might even seem consistent with the rest of the original, bugged points


have another crack at understanding this, liquid:

points gained by attacking a vehicle = how much it's worth (cost) and how much damage you're doing to it

compared to most other vehicles stank has a unusually high ratio of cost to health

obviously the point bug fucks this up somewhat, but the gist of it is still there
it costs about as much as a med, but only has half as much health

stanks don't follow different points formulas, they just have less health and more 'worth' in comparison to other vehicles, besides aircraft.


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[Updated on: Wed, 23 May 2012 04:21]

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467780 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Major-Payne is currently offline  Major-Payne
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5/200 is more than 5/1200

higher percentage of damage, points calculation is based on how much percentage of damage you to to an enemy. 50% = 25% of cost, 100% = 50% of cost, and kill = 50% of cost.

5/200 is 6 times more relative damage than 5/1200


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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467785 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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points bug gives 10 points for sniping a green flame, light , or medium tank (costing 800, 600, and 800)
it gives 12 for sniping a mammy (costing 1500)
you're doing comparatively less damage to a mammy since it has so much more health, but still receive more points for doing so than you do with the others mentioned above

you receive 22 for sniping a stank even though it has only 200 less hit points than the light tank

stealth tanks have 400 hit points, not 200

5/400 compared to 5/1200 - ok, sure, makes sense
but then light tanks are 600, so 5/400 compared to 5/600
and the 5/400 gives you more than double the 5/600

why, if you're doing more damage as a whole to the light tank, does it give you less than the mammoth tank does

i don't get what you're trying to explain MUDKIPS


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467786 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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mammies ruin the theory Sad

liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467788 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
shaitan is currently offline  shaitan
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Giving a stank a heavier armor is a horrible idea. They weren't meant for 'toe-to-toe' tactics.

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Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467793 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
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Westwood gave the stank heavier armor; that's the point of this topic lmao
i'm suggesting it should be medium armor instead of heavy


liquidv2
Re: Regarding Stealth Tanks [message #467808 is a reply to message #466574] Wed, 23 May 2012 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
YesNoMayb is currently offline  YesNoMayb
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I'm in the process of understanding this as well. The less health/armor a vehicle has, the more points you will get from shooting it?
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