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Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466504] Mon, 23 April 2012 00:28 Go to next message
Kamuix is currently offline  Kamuix
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Throughout the years i've always gone through modding games but I gotta ask, since this game is 10 years old now, has there been any other first person games that are as flexebly moddable as renegade? The only games I know of that are even somewhat compareable when it comes to modding capabilities are Half-Life 2 and Battlefield 2, but even with them you can't really do nearly as much as you can do with Renegade. Westwood made the most openly moddable games where you could easily change every aspect of maps & gameplay other than the core game engine programming.

I always thought that way before this time i'd of moved on to modding newer first person shooter games, but when i want to use my imagination to create a virtual world and.. just be creative and make maps & mods and play lan games i always come back to Renegade and other C&C Strategy games. But i havent really been much of a gamer so I gotta ask..

Are there any other first person shooter games that have decent or half decent modding capabilities? has anything came close to Renegade?

Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466511 is a reply to message #466504] Mon, 23 April 2012 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jonwil is currently offline  jonwil
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Unreal UDK or UnrealEngine3 would probably be quite moddable and RenegadeX shows that its possible to do cool C&C-like things with it.


Jonathan Wilson aka Jonwil
Creator and Lead Coder of the Custom scripts.dll
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Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466515 is a reply to message #466504] Mon, 23 April 2012 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mad Ivan is currently offline  Mad Ivan
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Colonel
Hope this helps! Smile

Something that I've been getting into recently is Unity. The non-pro version is free and the scripting is done in C# (or JavaScript or Boo if you are adventurous).

Although they are both technically engines and not games, I've tried UDK on my university machines and in my oppinion UDK feels a bit more like programming, while Unity feels more like modding (interpret it as you wish). I've modded Tiberian Sun, RA2 (before Ares), Renegade (before scripts.dll) and Generals before and I also have some experience with programming (some C/C++ and Python, less C# (Silverlight 3.5) and AS3, little to almost none Scheme and Prolog).

Both engines don't let you do "hardcore" memory-level programming (except Unity Pro which allows it).

Unity has less features than UDK, thought (especially the non-pro version), but it's lighter than UDK, thus I think it's better if you're doing it for the fun of it (just like modding). Both engines are free (if you're making a free game) and UDK has an advantage that you can make iOS and Android apps for free (unlike Unity).

The licensing options are pretty nice as well if you want to take it further.

Spoiler is performance and licensing information:
Toggle Spoiler


Quote:

Westwood made the most openly moddable games where you could easily change every aspect of maps & gameplay other than the core game engine programming.


EDIT:I agree - Westwood games were quite easy to mod. EA kind of raised the bar with Generals, but it was still ok modding-wise(probably because they hired DeeZire to help them with mod support when designing the engine), but BFME and later C&C games really killed it for me. Tried C&C3 but really couldn't get far and I never really bothered with RA3 after that. I don't really understand why did they do that whole compiling thing in the first place? I remember they claimed it speeds up loading times, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me... jonwil?

The following are more game engine-y (yes, I invented a word just now) rather than modding and you may have to do core stuff.

Toggle Spoiler


[Updated on: Mon, 23 April 2012 05:38]

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Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466525 is a reply to message #466504] Mon, 23 April 2012 06:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jonwil is currently offline  jonwil
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As the guy who probably knows more about the C&C3/RA3 engine than anyone else outside of EA, I can say that yes, the changes (the XML and the compiling) DO have benefits for the game.
The way things work, its possible to just load the compiled data straight off the disk and into memory and start using it (after certain fixups are applied where one piece of data points to another piece)
It is very efficient, much more efficient than reading the old slow-to-parse Generals ini files.

The biggest problem with the C&C3/RA3 engines was the lack of support for UI editing and the issues with music (especially music in RA3) and also the general lack of support for modding from EA.

Will be interesting to see how moddable Generals 2 ends up being...


Jonathan Wilson aka Jonwil
Creator and Lead Coder of the Custom scripts.dll
Renegade Engine Guru
Creator and Lead Coder of TT.DLL
Official member of Tiberian Technologies
Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466547 is a reply to message #466515] Mon, 23 April 2012 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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Mad Ivan wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 05:52


Something that I've been getting into recently is Unity. The non-pro version is free and the scripting is done in C# (or JavaScript or Boo if you are adventurous).

Unity becomes VERY painful if you try to make a multiplayer game with drivable vehicles (ones that players and passengers can get in and out of), as only the creator of the object can do the nice clean rapid updates. This means you have to do all sorts of hacks to get it to be even somewhat playable in multiplayer with vehicles.


Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466560 is a reply to message #466504] Mon, 23 April 2012 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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This game is only flexibly modifiable if you want to make something similar to C&C.
Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466616 is a reply to message #466560] Wed, 25 April 2012 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 17:55

This game is only flexibly modifiable if you want to make something similar to C&C.

Hey now, I made a 3D asteroids game and people enjoy that lol. You just have to be more creative if you make something non C&C on the w3d engine.


Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466678 is a reply to message #466504] Wed, 25 April 2012 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a000clown
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Commander
Speaking as someone who helped run his servers, I'm guessing Kamuix was referring to how much we can do without requiring the client to download a single thing.
I've always found it to be a great selling point for mods, being able to join a random server and seeing firsthand what makes it unique. Having to download is just too much to ask of people it seems...
Re: Have their been any good moddable first person games since Renegade? [message #466679 is a reply to message #466504] Thu, 26 April 2012 01:35 Go to previous message
Whitedragon is currently offline  Whitedragon
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Colonel
Most of the stuff you guys are talking about is only possible because of how much we've reverse engineered the engine and finding little tricks to get things to work. Renegade at release wasn't really that moddable.

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