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C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 15:02 Go to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Ever since 4.0 came out, ive wanted to create some C&C mode maps. I decided i would create a small infantry map, somewhat like C&C_Sand or gobi, though one that has more then two direct entrances into the bases.

This map has 4 ways into the bases, and as well two spots for snipers to perch from, overlooking each base. The bases are only seperated by a thin mountain, and a tunnel which you can use to quickly get there. Then there is two large paths around the outside of the bases, and an underground tunnel which goes directly into each base.

Here is some pictures so far, things may still change or be altered, but for the most part the shape will stay the same. The name was also random, i couldn't think of something that hasen't already been taken.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon1.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon2.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon3.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon4.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon5.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/The_Canyon6.jpg

I want to still add tiberium silos to each base, but at the moment i can't find a completed one for renx.
Unfortunately i cannot lightmap this either, as i did the work and renx and i don't know how that process works.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456598 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauler
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Nice stuff! And the lightmapping process does involve having a copy of 3DSMax in order to render a lightmap texture.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456599 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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Looks excellent, can't wait to play it.

Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456602 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Kane
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Finally something that doesn't look completely ass. You should try blending between different textures on the cliff sides, however.

Proud N9500 and proud N6270 user. Creator of the IEE libraries (original bhs.dll) and the RB series software.
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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456607 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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I think you're off to a good beginning, but you will need to push this farther to achieve what it's capable of being.

I'd set the tiling for the rocky texture to be a lot larger, so that it accentuates the detail of the mountainside instead of obscuring it. I would also roughen up the side of the cliffs manually, without modifiers, so that you can get a more interesting effect. Right now it looks like you gave me a big chunk of clay and I made smooth mountains by dragging my hands through it.

You should look into creating your own set of trees. If you can't, or can't spend the time, I give you permission to extract my trees from Fjords and use them if you'd like to. I'd like to see more foliage on this level. It's not dense enough, so it will turn into a bland death match without some way to avoid the massive amount of snipers that will appear and dominate the level.

I would also edit the terrain on the ground, give it hills and depressions. Break it up. Use the roads that you have on the logical exits of the map and add them to other areas - make it feel like you're in an environment instead of a Halo 2 map.

Use the Tiberium to create more interesting effects. Box off infantry from certain areas. Make them pay a penalty to access a premium sniping zone by having to cross over a Tiberium field to do it. This needs more cover. Add rubble, garrison-able civilian structures, rocks, etc.

Go farther with this. I know you're capable of it.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456613 is a reply to message #456607] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Quote:

I'd set the tiling for the rocky texture to be a lot larger, so that it accentuates the detail of the mountainside instead of obscuring it.


The main reason i kept it all tiled the same uvw, is so the textures blend seamlessly, instead of just ending suddenly which gives it a repetative straight edge look.

Quote:

I would also roughen up the side of the cliffs manually, without modifiers, so that you can get a more interesting effect.


I guess thats true, i will roughen it up more.

Quote:

You should look into creating your own set of trees.


I did make these, but using the renegade textures for the bark and pine leaf, there is 5 unique trees, i just wanted to keep the polygon counts lower for those. They range from 350-550 polygons each.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/Trees.jpg

Quote:

If you can't, or can't spend the time, I give you permission to extract my trees from Fjords and use them if you'd like to.


How many polygons are the ones from fjords? I would like to use them, and thanks for the offer, but at the moment i think i may stick with more basic ones because i didn't want to overly clutter the map.

Quote:

I'd like to see more foliage on this level. It's not dense enough.


I was thinking of adding more plants, but i still have to create better ones and more variety, still looking for better textures.

Quote:

I would also edit the terrain on the ground, give it hills and depressions.


I think ill do that then, as well as adding in two more dirt roads along the upper paths.


Quote:

Use the Tiberium to create more interesting effects. Box off infantry from certain areas. Make them pay a penalty to access a premium sniping zone by having to cross over a Tiberium field to do it. This needs more cover. Add rubble, garrison-able civilian structures, rocks, etc.


I guess i will untexture it and re-work it alot more. I will add more locations for the tiberium, the main reason i have 2 sqaures of it, is because i was going to plop the tiberium silos on those spots.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, i will try to improve it more, but i do want the polygon count in the lower ranges, it's already at 28,845.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 18:24]

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456614 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Canadacdn is currently offline  Canadacdn
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PLECOS MASTER
You should consider using the Rp2 script that does not allow sniper rifle users to fire their weapon unless they're standing still. As ACK said, this map will probably just devolve into a n00bjet fight pretty fast.

Also, you really shouldn't worry about polygons that much on a ren map. As long as you do VIS properly, that is.

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 18:18]

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456615 is a reply to message #456614] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Canadacdn wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 21:15

You should consider using the Rp2 script that forces sniper rifle users to stand still in order to fire their weapon.



Lol i don't know about that, i think i would rather have people able to snipe where ever they want, because i myself like to snipe, and don't like limitations on it in C&C mode.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456616 is a reply to message #456615] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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unless your Bugatti hunting or something Put in a shitty ass daspo object pile/latter that goes all the way up to the top of the hills so players can get up there and cap the game away.

Jk of course, more seriously sign onto AIM so we can discuss Rp2 and stuffs.


Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456617 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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You can set each texture to its own UV channel so that it blends seamlessly on different scales. Look at the cliffs in Fjords - the rock is tiled much larger than the grass or ice is. UV 1 and UV 2 will let you accomplish the same thing.

The trees for Fjords are around 150 to 200 polygons each. There's 500 of them in the level, with 1,500 view-oriented bushes. If you're worried about polygon count, don't. Fjords was around 350,000 polygons when completed. The electrical substation in front of the Ore Refinery takes up a good chunk of that count, weighing in around 25,000 polygons. Intelligent texture usage (scaled to fit the object, such as 2048s being used rarely, 1024s being used sparingly, 256s being used often, and 512s being used less often) will keep frame rates up. Adding a visibility system will also help.

You can easily run relatively high-poly levels in Renegade with little frame rate impact. Your material usage and texture usage being used intelligently, with an emphasis on re-using textures as modular pieces will help keep frames up.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456618 is a reply to message #456617] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:23

You can set each texture to its own UV channel so that it blends seamlessly on different scales. Look at the cliffs in Fjords - the rock is tiled much larger than the grass or ice is. UV 1 and UV 2 will let you accomplish the same thing.


Would you mind explaining uv channels in more detail, didn't realize they worked that way, how do you make just one of the textures sit under its own channel?


Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456620 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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There's 99 UV channels that 3DS Max (and by association, Renegade) understands. Each channel holds UV data, which defines how the textures appear in local space on the object. All modeling packages should have the ability to set different textures to display under different UV channels. The main rock texture for example was set to UV channel 2. The ground textures were all set to UV channel 1. When I have the whole level grouped together, I can set the proper tiling by adding two UVW Mapping modifiers to adjust the scale of the textures. There's a UV channel option in the subobject rollout of the UVW Mapping modifier.

When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456621 is a reply to message #456620] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:29

There's 99 UV channels that 3DS Max (and by association, Renegade) understands. Each channel holds UV data, which defines how the textures appear in local space on the object. All modeling packages should have the ability to set different textures to display under different UV channels. The main rock texture for example was set to UV channel 2. The ground textures were all set to UV channel 1. When I have the whole level grouped together, I can set the proper tiling by adding two UVW Mapping modifiers to adjust the scale of the textures. There's a UV channel option in the subobject rollout of the UVW Mapping modifier.

When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are.

Ah sorry, just found the spinner, can't believe it, I've probably seen that over 1000 times and never managed to put that together with the UV channels in the UVW Map settings...

This kind of makes the scale Mapper worthless doesn't it, as you could set the scale with another UVW Map on a different channel for each texture?


Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456622 is a reply to message #456620] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Quote:

When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are.

The only thing i don't understand is how i assign this UV 2 channel to my second pass material, i understand i can add another uvw , but it apparently isen't changing the actual uvw on either of the materials i have selected. Nevermind i understand now, seems easy and i guess i will add this effect to my cliffs, thanks for that Smile


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 18:47]

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456623 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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If you're saying that you can't see the changed UV layout in the Unwrap window, you'd need to change the UV channel to 2 there as well. Sometimes you have to hit the reset button in the subobject parameters in order to see the UVs in the editor.

Regarding the scale mapper, it's a matter of convenience. If you realize that you're going to need to change any scaling later on, using a scale mapper will make this process faster if you know how to use it.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456625 is a reply to message #456623] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jerad2142 is currently offline  Jerad2142
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:48

If you're saying that you can't see the changed UV layout in the Unwrap window, you'd need to change the UV channel to 2 there as well. Sometimes you have to hit the reset button in the subobject parameters in order to see the UVs in the editor.

Regarding the scale mapper, it's a matter of convenience. If you realize that you're going to need to change any scaling later on, using a scale mapper will make this process faster if you know how to use it.

Yeah I see your point with the fast to use point.
As for part one I figured it all out, but wouldn't have if you wouldn't have pointed out that's how it worked lol. So thanks for the help, I'm already using this knowledge to make my water look less tied (beings the only way I knew how to do it previously was with the scale map, and that prevented you from using things like linear offset, so it had serious drawbacks).


Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456626 is a reply to message #456597] Sun, 02 October 2011 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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Hence why I prefer UDK. It's all procedural, node-based, so each "mapper" you assign to your shaders can be plugged into other ones to combine different effects or remove them partially. For example, the idea behind "Scale" can be done with "TexCoord" IIRC, with that plugged into a Linear Interpolate and some other effects, you can easily make alpha blended materials with a minimum of effort.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456653 is a reply to message #456625] Mon, 03 October 2011 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sla.ro(master) is currently offline  sla.ro(master)
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nice map, looks epic. should be on most servers.

Creator of Mutant Co-Op
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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456678 is a reply to message #456597] Mon, 03 October 2011 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aircraftkiller is currently offline  Aircraftkiller
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It looks okay, even good, but in no universe would it be considered epic.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456686 is a reply to message #456678] Mon, 03 October 2011 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sla.ro(master) is currently offline  sla.ro(master)
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 19:41

It looks okay, even good, but in no universe would it be considered epic.


ok ,lol, is not epic then, but is good Wink


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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456695 is a reply to message #456597] Mon, 03 October 2011 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Well by the time it's done it will be better then just good, i hope. Smile I have been reworking the terrain entirely, roughening it up alot more, and adding in some background mountains.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456702 is a reply to message #456597] Mon, 03 October 2011 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iRANian is currently offline  iRANian
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That's good, you definitely have the skills to do so.

Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456721 is a reply to message #456597] Mon, 03 October 2011 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crazfulla is currently offline  crazfulla
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Looking very nice, however:

I think your tunnel layout is a bit boring (straight). Add a few bends, and perhaps a few junctions, to spice things up a bit. I mean, tunnels are vital on any infantry map.

The name is kinda stupid and sounds like a rip off of C&C_Canyon. try to come up with something more original.

As for silos for renx, I always liked these ones:


"GEoDLeto wrote:"

so what you are saying it is gonna take even longer before this thing is finished
So the topic title should be changed to: a sucky little "teaser" from C&C Reborn has been released

"halo2pac wrote:"

Unless they are girls, I am not going to bone them.

[Updated on: Mon, 03 October 2011 19:19]

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Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456734 is a reply to message #456721] Mon, 03 October 2011 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blazea58 is currently offline  Blazea58
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Quote:

I think your tunnel layout is a bit boring (straight). Add a few bends, and perhaps a few junctions, to spice things up a bit. I mean, tunnels are vital on any infantry map


Point taken, i guess ill rework the tunnels a bit more, i just made it straight because i didn't want it to go any further then it already is going, but i will add a few other sections to it.

Quote:

The name is kinda stupid and sounds like a rip off of C&C_Canyon. try to come up with something more original.


I know lol because it was a rip of that maps name to be honest. I didn't really come up with a proper name for it yet, but maybe in time as things shape up more i will come up with something better Smile

Quote:

As for silos for renx, I always liked these ones:


Thanks alot ill give these ones a try, looks like they are the open ones which i don't really like as much, but they will still do the trick Smile
I think ill have room to place 2 silos for each team, but they will be close together so an ion or nuke could kill both at once no problem


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w125/Blaze558/ECW_WebBanner1.jpg
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #456736 is a reply to message #456734] Mon, 03 October 2011 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
crazfulla is currently offline  crazfulla
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Blazea58 wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 18:56

Thanks alot ill give these ones a try, looks like they are the open ones which i don't really like as much, but they will still do the trick Smile
I think they are pretty cool how the top flies off lol. Some of the destroyable buildings (like on mutation redux etc) are buggy and allow infantry to get into stupid palces, but these silos don't. A few maps use these, like Cairo, and they work just as well. Smile


"GEoDLeto wrote:"

so what you are saying it is gonna take even longer before this thing is finished
So the topic title should be changed to: a sucky little "teaser" from C&C Reborn has been released

"halo2pac wrote:"

Unless they are girls, I am not going to bone them.
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