Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Pro Life or Pro choice?
| Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308883] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 19:39  |
Muad Dib15
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I think that abortion should only be approved if the woman/doctor can come up with sufficent proof that the baby will hurt the mother. For those of you that think abortion is a personal choice think about this. I consider a fetus a human being when, if they came out of the womb and lived, that they act like a normal human baby, mentally. It's kinda hard to say what I'm thinking, but you get the idea I hope. If a doctor performs an abortion, they should be charged with murder of a fetus/human being. It should also be illegal to smoke or do drugs or any other type of thing that can be harmful for your body.
I wish that now was like back in 1800s where if you made a mistake, you'd have to pay for it. Now you don't. You can just go to the doctor and say, "I had sex and now I'm pregnent. I don't want a baby, so could I have an abortion?" If you made a mistake and became pregnent, you should pay for it, not your child. Because that is what you are doing, you are killing your own child. Would you kill your 7 month old baby? NO!! Then why would you kill your son or daughter befor they were born?
If you say that you are fine with abortion, then you are not only saying that you are okay with murder, you are saying that it is okay to kill your children. Think about that, befor you say abortion is okay.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308886 is a reply to message #308883] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 19:43  |
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Dover
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 18:39 |
I think that abortion should only be approved if the woman/doctor can come up with sufficent proof that the baby will hurt the mother. For those of you that think abortion is a personal choice think about this. I consider a fetus a human being when, if they came out of the womb and lived, that they act like a normal human baby, mentally. It's kinda hard to say what I'm thinking, but you get the idea I hope. If a doctor performs an abortion, they should be charged with murder of a fetus/human being. It should also be illegal to smoke or do drugs or any other type of thing that can be harmful for your body.
I wish that now was like back in 1800s where if you made a mistake, you'd have to pay for it. Now you don't. You can just go to the doctor and say, "I had sex and now I'm pregnent. I don't want a baby, so could I have an abortion?" If you made a mistake and became pregnent, you should pay for it, not your child. Because that is what you are doing, you are killing your own child. Would you kill your 7 month old baby? NO!! Then why would you kill your son or daughter befor they were born?
If you say that you are fine with abortion, then you are not only saying that you are okay with murder, you are saying that it is okay to kill your children. Think about that, befor you say abortion is okay.
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Life begins at three months. It's been proven with psychological experiments that this is the point in which the fetus shows capacity for learning. I'll dig up the exact experiment later, but it involved Neo-pavlovian condition to react to loud noises or something like that. I dunno. I'll dig it up though
A full blown fetus is one thing, but you're going to have trouble convincing me that a small clump of cells can think.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308947 is a reply to message #308883] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 22:08 |
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Dover
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Oh, by the way, abortion is okay.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308951 is a reply to message #308883] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 22:21 |
Rocko
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i think it's okay to abort if the baby is going to be born super fucking retarded with like no arms or legs n 1 eye and will only live for a month anyways, or if they come out like sadukar.
black and proud
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308958 is a reply to message #308883] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 22:37 |
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Feetseek
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 20:39 |
I think that abortion should only be approved if the woman/doctor can come up with sufficent proof that the baby will hurt the mother. For those of you that think abortion is a personal choice think about this. I consider a fetus a human being when, if they came out of the womb and lived, that they act like a normal human baby, mentally. It's kinda hard to say what I'm thinking, but you get the idea I hope. If a doctor performs an abortion, they should be charged with murder of a fetus/human being. It should also be illegal to smoke or do drugs or any other type of thing that can be harmful for your body.
I wish that now was like back in 1800s where if you made a mistake, you'd have to pay for it. Now you don't. You can just go to the doctor and say, "I had sex and now I'm pregnent. I don't want a baby, so could I have an abortion?" If you made a mistake and became pregnent, you should pay for it, not your child. Because that is what you are doing, you are killing your own child. Would you kill your 7 month old baby? NO!! Then why would you kill your son or daughter befor they were born?
If you say that you are fine with abortion, then you are not only saying that you are okay with murder, you are saying that it is okay to kill your children. Think about that, befor you say abortion is okay.
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However, if the parents did not want the baby and knows they will not take care of it, not aborting it would cause the child to have a childhood of misery most likely.
"I wumbo, you wumbo, he, she, wombo, wombo, wombo-ing, wobology, the study of wombo, it's first grade SpongeBob" - Patrick Star.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308967 is a reply to message #308951] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 22:56 |
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Dover
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| Rocko wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 21:21 |
i think it's okay to abort if the baby is going to be born super fucking retarded with like no arms or legs n 1 eye and will only live for a month anyways, or if they come out like sadukar.
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Juliana Wetmore, anyone?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308978 is a reply to message #308883] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 00:44 |
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Chimp
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I'm a Republican. Though, a more left-wing Republican.
I believe in Pro-Choice. Not because I think that women should just be able to have babies and then murder them. No, thats not my line of reasoning.
First, let me give you an example of something that happens a lot:
A young black girl in the inner city gets pregnant with a black man's baby. Both are poor, ignorant, and stupid (Not trying to be racist or anything, I'm just giving an example that is very true in many poor areas). Now, if this girl wasn't allowed to get an abortion, whats going to happen? Shes going to make another poor, depraved, ignorant, and quite possibly stupid child to cause trouble.
This happens all of the time. This happens everywhere. And guess what? With the amount of drugs taken and alcohol by these people, the child will quite possibly be retarded.
Okay, now obviously, this isn't what its like for everyone. There are plenty of average or upper-class people who have this done out of pure insensity or stupidity.
If abortion was made illegal, we'd have a SURGE of people in these inner-city areas, and elsewhere.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #308984 is a reply to message #308978] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 00:54 |
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renohol
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Maud, u want "anything harmful" illegal, what about eating meat, should we all become vegaterians because of your beliefs?
And what about playing Renegade, it can lead to carpal tunnel and arthritis and should we all sit home as vegetables and stare at the TV 24/7? Wait TVs can produce harmful radiation and eye strain which could be deadly.
If we really think about it , the only proven thing living leads to is death which could be "harmful" so should we give up living?
u du da thinkin' and i'll do da drinkin'
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309001 is a reply to message #308883] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 03:15 |
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Jecht
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Life begins at conception. Experiments showing the capacity for learning at three months do not ensure life begins there. There are several organisms without the capacity to learn at all, yet are they any less alive?
Everyone speaks out about how the mother should have the choice to whether she wants the baby or not, but where is the voice of the child? If given the chance, would they choose to live or die? Rape is unfortunate, but the child did not choose to be to product of rape any more than the woman choose to be the victim of it. It's an enormous burden that's placed on the woman, but(and my fiancee thinks the same) she should birth the child and give it to an adoption agency. Subsequently, there should be MUCH harsher punishment upon rapists to deter this activity up to, and including capital punishment. That's a completely different topic though.
Abortion is murder, and women should be educated about the alternatives prior to abortion so that they don't make a choice that they would regret later in life. There is one instance for when abortion should be legal, and only one from my current viewpoint. That is the case for when the mother could be harmed in the case of birthing, or carrying the child.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309022 is a reply to message #308951] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 07:34 |
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sadukar09
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| Rocko wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 23:21 |
i think it's okay to abort if the baby is going to be born super fucking retarded with like no arms or legs n 1 eye and will only live for a month anyways, or if they come out like sadukar.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309041 is a reply to message #309001] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 08:51 |
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Chimp
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| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 10:15 |
Life begins at conception. Experiments showing the capacity for learning at three months do not ensure life begins there. There are several organisms without the capacity to learn at all, yet are they any less alive?
Everyone speaks out about how the mother should have the choice to whether she wants the baby or not, but where is the voice of the child? If given the chance, would they choose to live or die? Rape is unfortunate, but the child did not choose to be to product of rape any more than the woman choose to be the victim of it. It's an enormous burden that's placed on the woman, but(and my fiancee thinks the same) she should birth the child and give it to an adoption agency. Subsequently, there should be MUCH harsher punishment upon rapists to deter this activity up to, and including capital punishment. That's a completely different topic though.
Abortion is murder, and women should be educated about the alternatives prior to abortion so that they don't make a choice that they would regret later in life. There is one instance for when abortion should be legal, and only one from my current viewpoint. That is the case for when the mother could be harmed in the case of birthing, or carrying the child.
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Some people don't want their genes combined with someone else. My philosophy is, the kid can't think, they can't speak, they can't ''really'' feel. If the mother wants to get rid of them, let her, because of she doesn't? That kid may WISH they were never born living with someone like that.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 08:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309112 is a reply to message #309001] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 10:53 |
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Dover
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| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 02:15 |
Life begins at conception. Experiments showing the capacity for learning at three months do not ensure life begins there. There are several organisms without the capacity to learn at all, yet are they any less alive?
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| More learned people than I wrote: |
Conventional definition: Often scientists say that life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit the following phenomena:
Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth
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The "response to stimuli" is the important part here. Fetuses begin responding at 3 months. Therefore, it's safe to assume before then, they are not alive. Even brain-dead and comatose people respond to certain stimuli. How can you call killing something LESS THAN BRAIN DEAD murder?!
Edit: Really, the issue here isn't "Is it morally right or is it not?". The issue is "is it the government's place to make such a decision for women. I can't think of a single valid arguement to make Abortion illegal. Wether or not it's morally okay is neither here nor there.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 10:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309118 is a reply to message #309117] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 10:57 |
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Dover
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 09:56 |
I still feel that it's a life. It has human DNA and it has the potential and barring any medical conditions or twisted fate, the underdeveloped fetus will be a full grown, sentient human. That's enough for me to consider it to be worth saving.
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Eggs have the potential to become chickens, yet they are not chickens.
Edit: You did word this very well though. "I still feel" -- That's fine if you're ever in a situation where you might need an abortion, but that's far from reason to impose your values on over 150,000,000 women in the United States.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 11:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309126 is a reply to message #309121] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 11:03 |
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Dover
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 10:01 |
I'm not talking about a sperm or an egg. I'm talking about a fetus. I'm speaking of post-conception.
Plus, the egg is obviously not the chicken, nor does the egg turn into a chicken. The embryo inside of the egg is a chicken.
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You missed the point. Pre- or post-conception, the potential is still there. It has chicken DNA, and if nature takes it's course, it'll become a full-grown sentient chicken.
Plus, the embryo is the egg yolk, unless I'm terribley ignorant about eggs (I don't even really like eating them much), in which case I'm sorry.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309129 is a reply to message #308883] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 11:09 |
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cheesesoda
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A baseball sitting on a pitcher's mound does not have the same potential to be hit out of the park as a ball mid-air, being thrown towards the batter. Events have already set the ball in motion which is cause for the potential. Sure, the egg, fertilized or not, can potentially be a human, chicken, dog, etc... but without it being fertilized, it's a moot point.
Now, if you were trying to argue that it's wrong for women to take a birth control pill based on that argument, then I can see the relevance. However, an embryo is already past the stage of just existing and CAN be fertilized. The embryo is already in the midst of the process of developing into an adult human.
whoa.
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309192 is a reply to message #309022] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 13:00 |
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GoArmy44
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| sadukar09 wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 08:34 |
| Rocko wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 23:21 |
i think it's okay to abort if the baby is going to be born super fucking retarded with like no arms or legs n 1 eye and will only live for a month anyways, or if they come out like sadukar.
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Jealous I got a higher IQ than you?
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Rocko has an IQ?
Anyway I am pro-life...from the simple fact that every innocent person deserves to live. This talk about the baby having a screwed up life is kinda stupid...let it grow up, if the kid doesn't want to be alive thats his/her choice not the mother's. I believe that human life begins as soon as the sperm hits the egg...steps taken afterward to hinder its growth and/or kill is abortion which since it is the act of purposely killing a human..is murder.
Reconcilia Rem Publicam!
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 13:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Pro Life or Pro choice? [message #309208 is a reply to message #309193] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 13:31 |
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Starbuzz
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 14:02 |
I don't care if it's inside of the woman or not. She should not be able to write off the life of her child.
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So easy for you to say; you are not the woman.
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 20:39 |
It should also be illegal to smoke or do drugs or any other type of thing that can be harmful for your body.
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That's the best idea I have ever heard. Let's force our morals and beliefs on others. 
| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 04:15 |
Everyone speaks out about how the mother should have the choice to whether she wants the baby or not, but where is the voice of the child?
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| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 04:15 |
There is one instance for when abortion should be legal, and only one from my current viewpoint. That is the case for when the mother could be harmed in the case of birthing, or carrying the child.
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Then what about the "voice of the child"?
| IronWarrior wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 13:28 |
The body belongs to the women, it is her choice and her choice alone if she wants the baby or not, it is not yours or anyone else's to decide that.
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People's morals and selfish beliefs are what is stopping them from accepting this. ^
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 13:45] Report message to a moderator |
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