| Re: Suggestion [message #237917 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 03:29   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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An XWIS ban is completely ineffective when the current bypass you are targetting has a built-in Direct Connect window where the user has all the IP:ports of the servers they want to connect to, completely bypassing a connection to the RenGuard network.
There is no reason that we can't have a forum here to submit cheaters and evidence... but banning would only be effective on a per-server basis and would also be easier once Silent Kane figures out why his serial detection script is crashing the server and we can actually release it.
Don't insult 0x90's intelligence by suggesting that an XWIS ban would be anything more than a waste of time.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237918 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 03:51 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9744
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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People are working on preventing direct connect to WOL servers. Ain't that a solution, combined with xwis serial bans? I sure like hell wouldn't wanna pay 5-10 € everytime I want to go cheat.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237920 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 03:55 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
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Yeah, but not all servers WANT to eliminate GameSpy/direct connect users, and I certainly can't support a solution that encourages server owners to ditch GameSpy players. I don't think my GameSpy players are any less worthy to play than my WOL players.
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Mon, 08 January 2007 03:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237923 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:00 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9744
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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That's not really the issue. The issue seems to me that for quite a lot of servers, this solution would be a plus value, hence it could be worthy to give it support. If you, as server owner, choose this solution or not is your choice. It would just be another choise for server owners, just like it is their choice to run renguard or not.
Besides, what keeps gamespy players from using WOL/xwis?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237942 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:15 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I don't see how the benefits could come close to balancing out the work involved. A far more effective solution would be putting these convicted cheaters on a global ban list that server owners could compare against when players join their game. An XWIS ban can be a part of the process, but without something stronger added on (like the global ban list), then it would be like throwing a green paintball at the Great Wall of China and expecting it to change the entire wall to green.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237944 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:22 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9744
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Maybe you could start with xwis banning all people banned by server side anti cheat software. That only involves reporting of persons you already know.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237946 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:25 |
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Whitedragon
Messages: 832
Registered: February 2003
Location: California
Karma: 1
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Colonel |
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The FDS could check the serials of all players against the XWIS ban list and valid serial list.
Black-Cell.net
Network Administrator (2003 - )
DragonServ, Renegade's first IRC interface bot
Creator and lead coder (2002 - )
Dragonade, Renegade's first server side modification
Lead coder (2005 - )
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237947 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:32 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
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I'm not entirely sure that EA would allow access like that, but I can check. If nothing else, it could be filtered through a BHS-run intermediary.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237950 is a reply to message #237942] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 04:45 |
MexPirate
Messages: 883
Registered: March 2006
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Crimson wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 06:15 |
I don't see how the benefits could come close to balancing out the work involved. A far more effective solution would be putting these convicted cheaters on a global ban list that server owners could compare against when players join their game. An XWIS ban can be a part of the process, but without something stronger added on (like the global ban list), then it would be like throwing a green paintball at the Great Wall of China and expecting it to change the entire wall to green.
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I don't see the work tbh, this would generate a list of proven cheaters - Spoony has already said he would try to sort XWIS bans, others would be able to enforce any other punishments they are able (ie: renguard/serial bans from you or ip bans from server owners)
I am sure that a serial, renguard, XWIS and IP ban would stop at least some cheaters. Surely having the community submit evidence like this would help to produce a global ban list? and people could have confidence in the legitimacy of the ban (unlike most server bans currently)
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237953 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 05:11 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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This doesn't differ from my current plan that I had before any of this came up... let me re-iterate it.
- Server owners install serial hash console command.
- When player connects, get their serial hash. If the player is on RenGuard as well, when the serial hash is received from the RG master server, compare the hashes. (A bypass user's RG serial hash will NOT match their client's serial hash so you can ban them right away)
....
I am also seeking permission and details to connect to EA's serial validation server from the RenGuard master servers. If this is granted, then when a player connects to RenGuard, the reported serial hash is checked against EA's official database (the same one XWIS checks against) and if EA replies with a NO, then the player is disconnected from RenGuard. If EA replies with a YES, then we can (almost) safely assume that the player has not altered their reported serial hash in any way.
I'm not sure how much more is safe to reveal, but I doubt currently that we would be able to take the FDS-reported hash and bounce that against EA's server. Their hash calculation is (probably) not compatible. I am waiting on a reply about that. Of course, if it were compatible, being able to truly and reliably serial ban players would be in our grasp. But if it's not, as I suspect is the case, we would still depend on using RenGuard as an intermediary for validation of serials.
====
As you may have grasped, I am more in favor of software solutions rather than introducing the need for human intervention. Software can react much more quickly, in theory before a game's outcome is affected by someone who wants to cheat.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #237956 is a reply to message #237344] |
Mon, 08 January 2007 05:22 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9744
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Agreed on software vs human interfearance. However, software development / cvlearance by EA takes time.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Suggestion [message #238412 is a reply to message #237923] |
Wed, 10 January 2007 13:10 |
Tiesto
Messages: 600
Registered: June 2006
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Goztow wrote on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:00 |
Besides, what keeps gamespy players from using WOL/xwis?
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1.The naming system is more versatile.
2.Plus we know whos a moron and who isn't.
3.I know some people who can't use WOL..
But i would like to ask something..what if a player is banned unfairly due to shite moderating? What happens to that player?
Exodus Senior Moderator
For a commwar against Exodus, pm me.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #238452 is a reply to message #237344] |
Wed, 10 January 2007 14:39 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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In theory, since this system would be entirely human-moderated, the decision would be made in an unbiased way and the potential for "shite moderating" reduced. But there would simply HAVE to be a way for the ban to be appealed, even if the chances of reversal are slim.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Suggestion [message #238555 is a reply to message #237344] |
Thu, 11 January 2007 05:41 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I am locking all Spoony/Crimson ReneDrama-related threads. If you wish to discuss anticheat solutions and whatever else we talked about in this thread, please start a new thread. (Or if someone has already started one, reply to it.)
| Spoony says: |
To Crimson, I will say this last thing: about everything I've said about you, I sincerely hope you will prove me wrong.
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| Crimson responds: |
It would be a great pleasure to prove you wrong. (And hopefully you take that in the lighthearted way I mean it)
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I'm the bawss.
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