| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345162 is a reply to message #345150] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 13:30   |
gkl21
Messages: 238
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Saberhawk wrote on Tue, 05 August 2008 14:30 |
| blly wrote on Tue, 05 August 2008 14:03 |
ok so there wont be a separate ladder?
so just make it optional anyways, as i'd like to play on a server with the way ren came in the box.
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So don't install 1.037 
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...and a server that has literally nothing then the FDS installed. No scripts or anything.
If someone really wants it off that bad, they can learn C++ and use the give_points and give_money calls to simulate the bug...
All of you don't like RenGuard, but yet have it on because it's apart of your Regulator. This isn't different. ... And even to disable RenGuard on your regulator, you are required an extra file. What is the difference? None.
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345255 is a reply to message #344717] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 20:44 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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The half points fix is not a compromise at all, it doesn't change anything to our arguments.
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not everyone agrees with your arguments
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We're not after the gameplay effects, we are against intentionally creating a bug and adding cluttered code. Perhaps you think these reasons are minor, but coders apparently think differently judging from the unanimous vote for not having the bug optional in TT. You seem to demand us to make this feature optional yet you think it is wrong for us to force it being mandatory.
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we don't want it mandatory; you can't expect everyone to be happy with changing something that's worked fine for them for over six years
the fact that it hasn't for you doesn't matter to them, which is why not everyone wants your pointmod forced with the new patch
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Note that we did not fix the bug, we rewrote the points system to work properly without the bug. It's not simply "not applying the fix". Also note that we have given multiple ideas on how to maintain the cashflow which we think are fair alternatives and compromises but so far you have mostly ignored those.
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the multiple ideas you proposed wouldn't help; they would just create new problems needing new solutions
if you didn't change a thing it would be fine with many people, and, really, no one is making you play on a server with a "bugged" point system if you don't want to
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We have already stated that we will reconsider what we will need to do during beta testing, and that it is likely that there will be some separate pointsunfix. This discussion will get you nothing more than that, and that's why I stopped replying on this topic.
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translation: we're still going to force the pointmod on you if EA puts this patch through, even if we have to lie to them in order for that to happen
after we're done testing we might offer a way for you to get your original renegade points system back
i have one question that has not been answered: who made you in charge of balancing renegade? not everyone wants this, and you're using the anticheat and bug fixes as unfair leverage in the entire argument
if a server clearly doesn't want you to change their gameplay then why are you going ahead and doing it anyways? is it because you think you know better than them? it obviously means something to some people if it's kept this topic going for this long, so please consider that
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345262 is a reply to message #345255] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 22:12 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 05 August 2008 22:44 |
| Quote: |
The half points fix is not a compromise at all, it doesn't change anything to our arguments.
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not everyone agrees with your arguments
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We're not after the gameplay effects, we are against intentionally creating a bug and adding cluttered code. Perhaps you think these reasons are minor, but coders apparently think differently judging from the unanimous vote for not having the bug optional in TT. You seem to demand us to make this feature optional yet you think it is wrong for us to force it being mandatory.
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we don't want it mandatory; you can't expect everyone to be happy with changing something that's worked fine for them for over six years
the fact that it hasn't for you doesn't matter to them, which is why not everyone wants your pointmod forced with the new patch
| Quote: |
Note that we did not fix the bug, we rewrote the points system to work properly without the bug. It's not simply "not applying the fix". Also note that we have given multiple ideas on how to maintain the cashflow which we think are fair alternatives and compromises but so far you have mostly ignored those.
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the multiple ideas you proposed wouldn't help; they would just create new problems needing new solutions
if you didn't change a thing it would be fine with many people, and, really, no one is making you play on a server with a "bugged" point system if you don't want to
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We have already stated that we will reconsider what we will need to do during beta testing, and that it is likely that there will be some separate pointsunfix. This discussion will get you nothing more than that, and that's why I stopped replying on this topic.
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translation: we're still going to force the pointmod on you if EA puts this patch through, even if we have to lie to them in order for that to happen
after we're done testing we might offer a way for you to get your original renegade points system back
i have one question that has not been answered: who made you in charge of balancing renegade? not everyone wants this, and you're using the anticheat and bug fixes as unfair leverage in the entire argument
if a server clearly doesn't want you to change their gameplay then why are you going ahead and doing it anyways? is it because you think you know better than them? it obviously means something to some people if it's kept this topic going for this long, so please consider that
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We should probably stop influencing gameplay by fixing things like bluehell, improving performance, reducing lag, etc... I mean, it's been fine the way it is for over 6 years, right?
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345269 is a reply to message #338417] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 23:45 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9743
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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@Liquid : beta testing will be done by players who download and install the patch. Pushing the patch through by EA will only happen after beta testing prooves to be successful and gets the necessary community support.
That's why this discussion should now end and be retaken when beta testing is done. Then different solutions that were proposed in here can be tested and people will actually see the effects instead of presuming what effects might be.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345280 is a reply to message #345278] |
Wed, 06 August 2008 02:49 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| StealthEye wrote on Wed, 06 August 2008 02:41 |
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i have one question that has not been answered: who made you in charge of balancing renegade? not everyone wants this, and you're using the anticheat and bug fixes as unfair leverage in the entire argument
if a server clearly doesn't want you to change their gameplay then why are you going ahead and doing it anyways? is it because you think you know better than them? it obviously means something to some people if it's kept this topic going for this long, so please consider that
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We can't make everyone happy with everysingle feature. What you don't seem to understand is that making something optional doesn't imply everyone is happier. I have heard as many people who want to make it optional as who want to have it mandatory. Also you are completely ignoring the coding aspects. Can't blame you for that since I guess you don't code yourself, but you can't just ignore us because we have reasons you don't understand or because you only care for the patch and not for its coding. Because I can tell you that the quality of the code directly influences the quality of the patch.
tbh, I think the people that read all of this long topic, have actual arguments for what they say and still want it to be optional are little cooperative finding a solution. We already stated that there is little chance for the points fix to be optional in the patch, however provided with alternative solutions such as a standalone pointsunfix which will do exactly what you want. I don't see why this discussion is still going, because you already have a solution that should be enough to get the old, flawed system back.
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well said
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345282 is a reply to message #338417] |
Wed, 06 August 2008 02:52 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9743
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Now I'm really closing this topic until beta test gets back up. You made me reopen it once and IMO nothing new came out.
We'll open a new topic about it once beta testing starts. Don't make a new topic to continue this same discussion, please, unless yit contains something really revolutionary.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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