| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344669 is a reply to message #338417] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 12:07   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9745
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I agree with you that the half point fix could make it possible to be on the ladder as points are no longer affected then.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344696 is a reply to message #344692] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 13:39 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9745
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Nune wrote on Sun, 03 August 2008 22:20 |
errr not in cw servers please I like to know how many credits the other team has.
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The "half point fix" would obviously be optional / through a server side dll.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344717 is a reply to message #338417] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 15:39 |
StealthEye
Messages: 2518
Registered: May 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
 
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The half points fix is not a compromise at all, it doesn't change anything to our arguments.
We're not after the gameplay effects, we are against intentionally creating a bug and adding cluttered code. Perhaps you think these reasons are minor, but coders apparently think differently judging from the unanimous vote for not having the bug optional in TT. You seem to demand us to make this feature optional yet you think it is wrong for us to force it being mandatory.
Note that we did not fix the bug, we rewrote the points system to work properly without the bug. It's not simply "not applying the fix". Also note that we have given multiple ideas on how to maintain the cashflow which we think are fair alternatives and compromises but so far you have mostly ignored those.
We have already stated that we will reconsider what we will need to do during beta testing, and that it is likely that there will be some separate pointsunfix. This discussion will get you nothing more than that, and that's why I stopped replying on this topic.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 15:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344729 is a reply to message #344717] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 17:02 |
Gladiator
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2008
Location: /dev/root
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| StealthEye wrote on Sun, 03 August 2008 17:39 |
We're not after the gameplay effects, we are against intentionally creating a bug and adding cluttered code. Perhaps you think these reasons are minor, but coders apparently think differently judging from the unanimous vote for not having the bug optional in TT. You seem to demand us to make this feature optional yet you think it is wrong for us to force it being mandatory.
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Ah, yes... your arguement against having it optional is that you'd rather half-ass something?
It seems to me you've negating all the postives of the patch by not making the most controversial aspect optional.
[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 17:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344734 is a reply to message #344717] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 17:31 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| StealthEye wrote on Sun, 03 August 2008 17:39 |
We're not after the gameplay effects, we are against intentionally creating a bug and adding cluttered code. Perhaps you think these reasons are minor, but coders apparently think differently judging from the unanimous vote for not having the bug optional in TT.
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Occam's razor ftw. Not only is the simplest solution usually the cleanest, it's also the fastest (in CPU cycles).
| Gladiator wrote on Sun, 03 August 2008 19:02 |
Ah, yes... your arguement against having it optional is that you'd rather half-ass something?
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Our argument is that we'd rather *not* half-ass something with hacks cluttering the otherwise sleek and efficient code to enable bug conditions which would have been fixed by Westwood anyways if they had the chance.
[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 17:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344769 is a reply to message #344729] |
Sun, 03 August 2008 22:36 |
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Chuck Norris
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Registered: July 2007
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| Gladiator wrote on Sun, 03 August 2008 20:02 |
Ah, yes... your arguement against having it optional is that you'd rather half-ass something?
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Why would anyone want the points bug left? The only thing it does is let the real half-assers shoot things they don't damage and get points and credits.
As for Jelly, I'm not going to tread on the "my users are happy and we don't want to be forced to change", as I'm sure you do wish and know the best for them, but realistically speaking, they're probably there because they think it's a great community and because it's active. I doubt many show up just because there's a points bug, and I doubt they'd all leave if they can't be n00bs, and if some do, let them I'd say. Anyway, above post says it better than me. Let's not assume what's what of the silent mass.
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344794 is a reply to message #338417] |
Mon, 04 August 2008 02:04 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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The whole point of having a ladder is to rank the best players in Renegade. I think it's safe to say that the current ladder system doesn't reward the highest skilled players correctly. Using a modification that rewarded n00b tactics like shooting the harvester with a minigunner would give an unfair advantage to the players using the n00b tactics rather than the players who try to gain credits without the refinery by doing the things Spoony mentioned that actually help your team.
Hence, why should games run with an unfair system count towards the ladder, which is supposed to rank the most skilled players?
Once again, please respond to this based on the assumption that the ladder is using a better formula that better rates players on their skill and not the incomplete system currently in place.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344822 is a reply to message #338417] |
Mon, 04 August 2008 06:46 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
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General (3 Stars) |
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Well, im sure people on agree on the fact that if they want their server to be laddered on the "official" system, then the playing field must be equal and it would be unfair to allow non-points fixed servers to be connected to that ladder. The question I still haven't heard back from the TT crew answered is whether or not they have decided to make it optional (server owners choice).
My: Videos/Website/Forums
[Updated on: Mon, 04 August 2008 06:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #344842 is a reply to message #344822] |
Mon, 04 August 2008 08:17 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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General (3 Stars) |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Mon, 04 August 2008 15:46 |
Well, im sure people on agree on the fact that if they want their server to be laddered on the "official" system, then the playing field must be equal and it would be unfair to allow non-points fixed servers to be connected to that ladder. The question I still haven't heard back from the TT crew answered is whether or not they have decided to make it optional (server owners choice).
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The idea is NOT to make it optional, and fix the issue jelly has in a different way. In order for us to do that however, we need his cooperation.
Until now he doesn't get anything farther than basically "leave it as is" instead of trying to thinks of new options to solve his problem, and not disturb the gameplay balance (like the half point fix).
If he does cooperate, and there is truly (after for ex. a month of testing) no other option, then after the beta testing there will be a hack which would disable it. But in order to make that, we really want all other options tested.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Mon, 04 August 2008 08:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345047 is a reply to message #338417] |
Mon, 04 August 2008 22:21 |
blly
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2007
Location: ONLINE ALL DAY EVERY DAY ...
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Whats the problem with making it optional? its not like its gonna hurt you in any way, there will be a seperate ladder for un-pts fixed servs, so whats the problem?
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345142 is a reply to message #345134] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 11:10 |
w0dka
Messages: 181
Registered: March 2006
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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In my experience, playing on pointfix pulbic servers is now much more fun. Cause the standart 10 havocs/25players is no longer present. Ref down is now a hard slowdown. But it is playable and fun.
I fully support pointfix. Please do not make it optional. Or you will end up to do everything balancingrelated optional. Gamingsucess should be comparable and a good experience on every server.
Thanks.
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| Re: in regard to the points fix [message #345147 is a reply to message #338417] |
Tue, 05 August 2008 12:03 |
blly
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2007
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ok so there wont be a separate ladder?
so just make it optional anyways, as i'd like to play on a server with the way ren came in the box.
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IT SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL
