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| Re: Marijuana [message #240569 is a reply to message #238830] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 07:43   |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Comments?
Junk.
An attempt by someone to use phrases that have no relation to what he is stating, other than to ensure that he is heard simply by their use.
Add in glossing over the bad, and associating it - incorrectly - with other wrong things, and emphasizing a good that is also incorrectly associated with things that have nothing to do with it. All in the hopes that someone will take what it says at face value with doing absolutely no research on it themselves, simply because it was composed in a way to make is sound good.
How... Michael Moore of him.
He comments that legalization would be beneficial as education would allow the usage to be monitored.
Kind of like how drug education works now, right?
Oh, wait... it doesn't. Otherwise it wouldn't be used. Especially with the health risks associated with it.
| From Wikipedia |
[edit] Effects and health issues
[edit] Acute
Cocaine is a potent central nervous system stimulant. Its effects can last from 20 minutes to several hours, depending upon the dosage of cocaine taken, purity, and method of administration.
The initial signs of stimulation are hyperactivity, restlessness, increased blood pressure, increased heart rate and euphoria. The euphoria is sometimes followed by feelings of discomfort and depression and a craving to experience the drug again. Sexual interest and pleasure can be amplified. Side effects can include twitching, paranoia, and impotence, which usually increases with frequent usage.
With excessive dosage the drug can produce hallucinations, paranoid delusions, tachycardia, itching, and formication.
Overdose causes tachyarrhythmias and a marked elevation of blood pressure. These can be life-threatening, especially if the user has existing cardiac problems.
The LD50 of cocaine when administered to mice is 95.1 mg/kg.[13] Toxicity results in seizures, followed by respiratory and circulatory depression of medullar origin. This may lead to death from respiratory failure, stroke, cerebral hemorrhage, or heart-failure. Cocaine is also highly pyrogenic, because the stimulation and increased muscular activity cause greater heat production. Heat loss is inhibited by the intense vasoconstriction. Cocaine-induced hyperthermia may cause muscle cell destruction and myoglobinuria resulting in renal failure. There is no specific antidote for cocaine overdose.
Cocaine's primary acute effect on brain chemistry is to raise the amount of dopamine and serotonin in the nucleus accumbens (the pleasure center in the brain); this effect ceases, due to metabolism of cocaine to inactive compounds and particularly due to the depletion of the transmitter resources (tachyphylaxis). This can be experienced acutely as feelings of depression, as a "crash" after the initial high. Further mechanisms occur in chronic cocaine use.
[edit] Chronic
Chronic cocaine intake causes brain cells to adapt functionally to strong imbalances of transmitter levels in order to compensate extremes. Thus, receptors disappear from the cell surface or reappear on it, resulting more or less in an "off" or "working mode" respectively, or they change their susceptibility for binding partners (ligands) – mechanisms called down-/upregulation. Chronic cocaine use leads to a DAT upregulation[verification needed], further contributing to depressed mood states. Finally, a loss of vesicular monoamine transporters, neurofilament proteins, and other morphological changes appear to indicate a long term damage of dopamine neurons.
All these effects contribute to the rise in an abuser's tolerance thus requiring a larger dosage to achieve the same effect. The lack of normal amounts of serotonin and dopamine in the brain is the cause of the dysphoria and depression felt after the initial high. The diagnostic criteria for cocaine withdrawal is characterized by a dysphoric mood, fatigue, unpleasant dreams, insomnia or hypersomnia, E.D., increased appetite, psychomotor retardation or agitation, and anxiety.
Cocaine abuse also has multiple physical health consequences. It is associated with a lifetime risk of heart attack that is seven times that of non-users. During the hour after cocaine is used, heart attack risk rises 24-fold [14]
Side effects from chronic smoking of cocaine include chest pain, lung trauma, shortness of breath, sore throat, hoarse voice, dyspnea, and an aching, flu-like syndrome. A common misconception is that the smoking of cocaine chemically breaks down tooth enamel and causes tooth decay. However, cocaine does often cause involuntary tooth grinding, known as bruxism, which can deteriorate tooth enamel and lead to gingivitis.[15]
Chronic intranasal usage can degrade the cartilage separating the nostrils (the septum nasi), leading eventually to its complete disappearance. Due to the absorption of the cocaine from cocaine hydrochloride, the remaining hydrochloride forms a dilute hydrochloric acid.[1]
Cocaine may also greatly increase this risk of developing rare autoimmune or connective tissue diseases such as lupus, Goodpasture's disease, vasculitis, glomerulonephritis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome and other diseases.[16][17][18][19] It can also cause a wide array of kidney diseases and renal failure.[20][21] While these conditions are normally found in chronic use they can also be caused by short term exposure in susceptible individuals.
There have been published studies[citation needed] reporting that cocaine causes changes in the frontal lobe of the brain. The full extent of possible brain deterioration from cocaine use is not known.
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Yes, lets let something that is highly addictive and causes all sorts of health-related problems. The solution is most definitely unrestricted access.
He then associated the "persecution" of drugs to... wait... "persecution"? Ah, yes... another attempt at using big words with bad meanings to help his viewpoint. Heck, for a parent not to allow a child to stay up as late as he wants is persecution. Even better is me not being paid $500,000 a month to sit around and do nothing.
"Persecution", by definition is "The act or practice of persecuting on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs that differ from those of the persecutor. " By my work place not allowing me to be paid what I BELIEVE I should be paid is persecution. I Believe I should be paid that $500,000... no... $1 Billion dollars an hour. How dare they persecute me? I should sue!
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? I thought so to.
Anyways, he was talking about "persecution" (heck, why don't we just call it the torture of substance users as well?) and relating that to the prohibition of alcohol. The only reason that didn't work was because of the history behind alcohol consumption, and the fact they were making something that was legal, illegal. Drugs, on the other hand, STARTED OUT illegal. It is currently nothing like the prohibition of alcohol, as none of the factors are the same. Though, admittedly, it does make for an attractive argument simply because both groups were not getting something they wanted. (cue the crying baby screaming "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT!!!")
[Updated on: Mon, 22 January 2007 07:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Marijuana [message #240576 is a reply to message #240573] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 07:54 |
MexPirate
Messages: 883
Registered: March 2006
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| mrpirate wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 08:48 |
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Drugs, on the other hand, STARTED OUT illegal.
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Nope.
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x2
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Marijuana [message #240579 is a reply to message #240569] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 08:10 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Yes, lets let something that is highly addictive and causes all sorts of health-related problems. The solution is most definitely unrestricted access.
He then associated the "persecution" of drugs to... wait... "persecution"? Ah, yes... another attempt at using big words with bad meanings to help his viewpoint. Heck, for a parent not to allow a child to stay up as late as he wants is persecution. Even better is me not being paid $500,000 a month to sit around and do nothing.
"Persecution", by definition is "The act or practice of persecuting on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs that differ from those of the persecutor. " By my work place not allowing me to be paid what I BELIEVE I should be paid is persecution. I Believe I should be paid that $500,000... no... $1 Billion dollars an hour. How dare they persecute me? I should sue!
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? I thought so to.
Anyways, he was talking about "persecution" (heck, why don't we just call it the torture of substance users as well?) and relating that to the prohibition of alcohol. The only reason that didn't work was because of the history behind alcohol consumption, and the fact they were making something that was legal, illegal. Drugs, on the other hand, STARTED OUT illegal. It is currently nothing like the prohibition of alcohol, as none of the factors are the same. Though, admittedly, it does make for an attractive argument simply because both groups were not getting something they wanted. (cue the crying baby screaming "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT!!!")
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Marijuana_Tax_Act
Yeah... that's what LED to the criminalization of marijuana in America. Yeah... started off illegal? I don't think so.
whoa.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #240601 is a reply to message #240599] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 09:10 |
Romaner
Messages: 355
Registered: January 2007
Location: edmonton, canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| Darkknight wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 08:52 |
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Well, not much can be said about what goes on in your own time (hence why small amounts for personal use aren't deemed a major offence in Canada). Unfortuately, "your own time" is very little. Unless you live alone, and never have guests over.
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my guests would know i smoke pot. Just like if i had a cigg or drank. Up to them if they want to come over or not. And i would think my guests (friends) would be those like me.
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or if they were not like me i would air it out and febreeze it all so they would not be bothered by it.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #240633 is a reply to message #240601] |
Mon, 22 January 2007 12:28 |
MexPirate
Messages: 883
Registered: March 2006
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Romaner wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 10:10 |
| Darkknight wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 08:52 |
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Well, not much can be said about what goes on in your own time (hence why small amounts for personal use aren't deemed a major offence in Canada). Unfortuately, "your own time" is very little. Unless you live alone, and never have guests over.
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my guests would know i smoke pot. Just like if i had a cigg or drank. Up to them if they want to come over or not. And i would think my guests (friends) would be those like me.
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or if they were not like me i would air it out and febreeze it all so they would not be bothered by it.
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We we're using Oust! and it seemed quite effective, we shall try febreeze and see how it compares.
It's a mexican pirate .... F*ck a dog by Blink 182
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| Re: Marijuana [message #242980 is a reply to message #240569] |
Fri, 02 February 2007 17:11 |
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xptek
Messages: 1410
Registered: August 2004
Location: USSA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Sorry I haven't been able to address this post. Been busy with life and such.
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Yes, lets let something that is highly addictive and causes all sorts of health-related problems. The solution is most definitely unrestricted access.
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I'm not for unrestricted access, which is what we have now, at all. I'd be in favor of the government providing addicts with safe and regulated doses of drugs and encouraging them to join programs to help manage their addictions. An alcoholic doesn't have to worry about overdosing on Everclear when he thought he was drinking Bud Light. A heroin addict does. Why? Because the government mandates that the alcohol content be listed right on the bottle. The manufacturer also has a vested interest in delivering a consistent product. There's no such control in the illegal market -- products may not be cut the same from batch to batch, or may be unknowingly cut less this time because they went through two people instead of the normal four. A professional lab also produces more consistent yields with less toxic contamination than your average clandestine lab in someone's basement. The chemists usually have better training and purer chemicals as well. Remember that heroin was available "over the counter" at most general stores in the 1800s and there wasn't an epidemic of heroin users dropping dead then. Why? It was regulated.
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
He then associated the "persecution" of drugs to... wait... "persecution"? Ah, yes... another attempt at using big words with bad meanings to help his viewpoint. Heck, for a parent not to allow a child to stay up as late as he wants is persecution. Even better is me not being paid $500,000 a month to sit around and do nothing.
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I believe he was referring to the death caused by the unregulated substances addicts have to turn to.
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Anyways, he was talking about "persecution" (heck, why don't we just call it the torture of substance users as well?) and relating that to the prohibition of alcohol. The only reason that didn't work was because of the history behind alcohol consumption, and the fact they were making something that was legal, illegal. Drugs, on the other hand, STARTED OUT illegal. It is currently nothing like the prohibition of alcohol, as none of the factors are the same.
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Drugs started out illegal? What? It's very similar to the prohibition of alcohol in every respect. Huge crime rings, unregulated products killing users, etc.
| warranto wrote on Mon, 22 January 2007 09:43 |
Though, admittedly, it does make for an attractive argument simply because both groups were not getting something they wanted. (cue the crying baby screaming "I WANT, I WANT, I WANT!!!")
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Yeah, because the right to put a substance in your body is sure a lot to ask for. 
cause = time
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243521 is a reply to message #238830] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 12:56 |
Romaner
Messages: 355
Registered: January 2007
Location: edmonton, canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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all im for is lets not group weed with all the other drugs, all the other drugs are way more destructive to your body and your mental state than weed is. what i want to see is weed being treated same as alcohol cause really if you look at the research done about both they are pretty much in the same class.
and i bet there are alot more alcoholics out there then people addicted to weed. you cannot overdose on weed and if you look at it this way you can get alcohol pisoning so really when you compare the two i would say better weed than alcohol. sure nobody wants to see people smoke it on the street, but yet we got bums that drink on the street. when i was in school and had to take the bus almost every day i would see some one (a bum most likely) drink on the bus, sometimes even mouthwash just to get drunk. but yet weed is so bad for you? please there are alot of things out there that are 10 or maybe even 100 times worse and more addictive than weed so why classify pot as this huge problem? or this huge concern. all im saying is would it impact society that much to legalize weed and slap the same restrictions for it as they do with alcohol. no public intoxication and no smoking and driving, now would that really ruin the society nowdays?
i think you all know the answer but choose not to face it. letting those who choose to get high before going to a movie, or maybe in a bar, and in the privacy of their own homes is not going to change anything. and just so you know i have never seen anyone get violent from smoking weed, something i cant say about people drinking.
on the most part a stoner is still more useful then an alcoholic for any job, and all weed does is make you relax and makes most people mellow. so how is that bad?
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243522 is a reply to message #243504] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 13:00 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 12:18 |
| warranto |
Try to come up with an actual argument rather than crying that all the time. I have yet to see any sort of reason for drugs to be allowed other than crying "rights violation" or by comparing it to something else. Nothing to explain the drug use itself.
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How about the pleasure of a high. That's a pretty valid reason. It may be a very immoral reason to you, but as I've said numerous times throughout this thread, morality is subjective.
If I don't hurt you while I'm doing something, I see no reason why I should be punished for it.
Plus, if drugs are legalized, the quality can be better regulated to ensure a cleaner drug.
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Who really cares about a cleaner drug? Oh right... only those who use it. I say if you're willing to use those sort of drugs, I could care less what happens to you. If taking them is so important, deal with the risks involved.
As for the "pleasure" of a high, I could care less. Just because it generates a pleasure, doesn't mean it should be done. Heck, "regulated" child porn would give some people pleasure, and it wouldn't hurt anyone as long as the industry was regulated, but I don't see that becoming legal any time soon.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243524 is a reply to message #243521] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 13:03 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Romaner wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 12:56 |
all im for is lets not group weed with all the other drugs, all the other drugs are way more destructive to your body and your mental state than weed is. what i want to see is weed being treated same as alcohol cause really if you look at the research done about both they are pretty much in the same class.
and i bet there are alot more alcoholics out there then people addicted to weed. you cannot overdose on weed and if you look at it this way you can get alcohol pisoning so really when you compare the two i would say better weed than alcohol. sure nobody wants to see people smoke it on the street, but yet we got bums that drink on the street. when i was in school and had to take the bus almost every day i would see some one (a bum most likely) drink on the bus, sometimes even mouthwash just to get drunk. but yet weed is so bad for you? please there are alot of things out there that are 10 or maybe even 100 times worse and more addictive than weed so why classify pot as this huge problem? or this huge concern. all im saying is would it impact society that much to legalize weed and slap the same restrictions for it as they do with alcohol. no public intoxication and no smoking and driving, now would that really ruin the society nowdays?
i think you all know the answer but choose not to face it. letting those who choose to get high before going to a movie, or maybe in a bar, and in the privacy of their own homes is not going to change anything. and just so you know i have never seen anyone get violent from smoking weed, something i cant say about people drinking.
on the most part a stoner is still more useful then an alcoholic for any job, and all weed does is make you relax and makes most people mellow. so how is that bad?
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And act incredibly stupid, not to mention slow down their progress and cognitive abilities.
EVERY person I've encountered who was high acted just that way. "mellow and relaxed" to the point of not even caring about the job they were doing, or what was going on around them. One group of people who were quite obviously high were shouting at the movie screen in a theatre.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243525 is a reply to message #243522] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 13:10 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 15:00 |
| j_ball430 wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 12:18 |
| warranto |
Try to come up with an actual argument rather than crying that all the time. I have yet to see any sort of reason for drugs to be allowed other than crying "rights violation" or by comparing it to something else. Nothing to explain the drug use itself.
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How about the pleasure of a high. That's a pretty valid reason. It may be a very immoral reason to you, but as I've said numerous times throughout this thread, morality is subjective.
If I don't hurt you while I'm doing something, I see no reason why I should be punished for it.
Plus, if drugs are legalized, the quality can be better regulated to ensure a cleaner drug.
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Who really cares about a cleaner drug? Oh right... only those who use it. I say if you're willing to use those sort of drugs, I could care less what happens to you. If taking them is so important, deal with the risks involved.
As for the "pleasure" of a high, I could care less. Just because it generates a pleasure, doesn't mean it should be done. Heck, "regulated" child porn would give some people pleasure, and it wouldn't hurt anyone as long as the industry was regulated, but I don't see that becoming legal any time soon.
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Simple argument against child porn: Non-consenting adults. That is why it's illegal, and that's why it'll remain illegal.
Just because something might be better off left alone doesn't mean it should be outlawed unless it imposes on the rights of others. Again, stop trying to objectify morality.
whoa.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243550 is a reply to message #243547] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 14:03 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto |
Oh, I'm not trying to objectify anything.
As for the "non-consenting" aspect, would only work if the parents did not consent to the act... but what if the parents did? Would it be OK then, if it were regulated, to allow it because it gives some people pleasure?
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Just because something might be better off left alone doesn't mean it should be outlawed unless it imposes on the rights of others.
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Or the general populace is too immature to handle that responsibility.
Which is why Driving while drunk is illegal (simply driving drunk doesn't impose on anyone's rights... it only does if there is an accident involving someone else or their property), and heck... even why being drunk in public is wrong. People (as a group) are far too immature NOT to get so drunk that they would do those things... so the government makes it illegal so they can impose penalties on those who are not mature enough to handle it.
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No, it's not okay if the parents consent. Parents consent to beating their kids. Parents consent to forcing their children into labor. Parents consent to incest. Parental consent doesn't mean everything
Marijuana may make people lazy, but alcohol makes people lazy, aggressive, sad, ecstatic, etc... and can be just as detrimental, but society hasn't fallen apart because of it since Prohibition ended. In fact, it was worse when alcohol was banned.
whoa.
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| Re: Marijuana [message #243553 is a reply to message #239658] |
Mon, 05 February 2007 14:08 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7431
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Romaner wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 16:36 |
crimson i get your point, but it sounds to me that this ex of yours had alot of stuff going on with him and weed was just the tip of the iceberg. yes smoking weed does make you loose your judgement for a period of time, but it all depends on how you handle yourself when you are high on it. and how much you consume.
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I already said that. He was planning to kill himself that night. But my point is, when he was on weed, he didn't care about the consequences of his actions, and therefore pulled the trigger on some random woman who had the audacity to deliver him a pizza. Whether he would have done it while not on weed is up for debate, but I think most people can agree that weed gives you a relaxed, don't give a shit type of mentality.
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plus again age is a factor, how old was your ex when all this was going on, how mature was he to begin with. i mean if you are immature and inconsiderate of others then smoking weed would only make you worse.
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I think he was 21 or 22 at the time. His maturity level was definitely questionable. He abused alcohol and weed all the time.
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plus just like alcohol some people are just not cut out for it and should not use it. unfortunately those are the people that usually end up using it more and more till they get completely out of control. also i play ren when im high (thats why my join mesage says intoxicated at work lol), and i react pretty fast i would say. having said that i would never get high before or during work cause i really cant fuck up or its going to be a very big mess.
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And this is a perfect argument for keeping weed illegal. But, then again, I don't think alcohol should be legal, either. People in general don't seem to be mature enough to consume it until they're like 25.
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and since you said it was a 6.50$ an hour job for an assistant manager i would say you guys were pretty young back then.
also no offense but i hope you pick them better now if you know what i mean.
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Um, yeah, that was in 1998-1999 so I was like 18-19. And, I do pick them better. Not to go into too many details, but this particular person was never a "boyfriend", just someone I went out with a few times.
I'm the bawss.
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