| End to beta maps. [message #-996793] |
Tue, 14 May 2002 22:49  |
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Can we please see an end to the PUBLIC release of beta maps? In every other community, the release of beta maps has always lead to a very big problem later on. When you have 3 or 4 versions of the same map released to the public over time, eventually you have several groups of people that all have different versions. This usually leads to pure chaos. I have personally seen this lead to the almost total obliteration of mapping in the RTCW community. The RTCW fansites finally all got together and decided NOT to post beta maps any longer. Mappers,
I respect you guys alot. I tried mapping for about 5 minutes and came to the conclusion I would never be a mapper. However, please stop with the public beta maps. I know that the mappers in the community have enough friends they could pass their map to a dozen or so ppl for about a week for testing. Or ask a clan if they would like to test your map for you. Please no more maps except in their FINAL released version. Thanks. KP 
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996792] |
Tue, 14 May 2002 22:52  |
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wow, about time someone realised the obvious truth... early betas are meant to be closed tests, public betas shouldnt be used with maps.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996791] |
Tue, 14 May 2002 22:58 |
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Exactly Darc. It leads to alot of confussion in the end. I mean I love all the mappers in the community and will do all I can to help them. I have alot of resources at my disposal having an MGON site. I will be more than happy to host their beta maps in a secured location so only beta testers can acquire it. Or anything else including advertising for beta testers for beta maps and mods for the authors. I just can't stress this enough but I have seen it happen in more than one community and nothing good ever became of it. As a matter of fact, the RTCW community lost some great mappers as a result. I don't want to see the same happen here. KP
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996790] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 00:28 |
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Bigass bump. Another problem is when the Mapper/Modder finally releases the full version everyone will think of the first beta they played, and maybe not play it. Mapper/Modder's who release their beta's publicly are taking a big chance they're hard work will go unnoticed.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996789] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 06:18 |
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That's also very true, Pynky. If the mappers and modders in the community would visit the other communities, they would see that releasing beta maps to the public is considered a big no-no. Maybe things will change. Maybe not.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996786] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 06:32 |
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Nuke, I am leaving it up to the mapper. I can in no way MAKE a mapper do anything. I am asking mappers to take the time to test the map before release. I have seen what excess of beta maps can do. I'm an old fellow in the game community business and I have seen it all. Beta maps being one of the worst things. Mappers can find groups larger than 1-2 ppl to test for them. You will not see beta maps being release in any other community. Try it in Q3 or UT community and you'll get laughed at. In the HL community, the other mappers would force you out. Why? Because they have seen the damage beta maps can do. So when you have the years experience I do and the need to keep this community alive I do, then you can state your opinion as to HOW I SHOULD proceed. Until then, my appeal is to the mappers, not the public. KP
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996784] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 11:56 |
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Just take a look at all the map threads in this forum. How many threads are for the same map just a different version?
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996783] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 13:03 |
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If there is one thing i have learned from all the beta excitement in the past about the aircraft is. Not many people are willing to preticipate in anything, unless its offical by Westwood. Just felt like saying that.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996782] |
Wed, 15 May 2002 14:00 |
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the reason i release my maps and mods in beta are so that people can play around and get familiar with the units and some tactics that they can use with them. i get input from most as to what needs changed......what needs balanced a little more and what they think of the mod. i let the gamers have a voice in the modding process....and i also give the ones that help credit for it. beta releases are used to give the map and mod makers a basic idea of how their work has been rated by the community. i dont think the problemb is the beta itself as much as the support and exposure that their makers give it. i am guilty....i have two RA2 mods under my belt......and the second still doesnt meet my expectations but it is a descent multi player mod......just not as good of a skirmish mod due to the abscence of AI scripts. i havent done any work to it in two months.....since i got renegade.......but i still have a few things i could improve on before i call it final. It's not the RA2 players fault i got caught up in modding renegade.....it's my fault that i have scheduled myself with so many projects that i find it difficult to keep some from slipping. And that is also why i release my mods and maps as open source(editable versions included)......that way they will never be lost and if someone else wishes to pick up the project......they are more than welcome to do that and release it under their own name(with credits). so....in summary......if they didnt release a beta......they wouldnt know if it is worth completing or scrapping and moving on to another project. If nobody likes it.....why even go there. Eric.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996781] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 01:10 |
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My only complaint with some of the beta maps is that some are clearly not finished and buggy. Now, obviously the purpose of a beta is to find bugs but in some "betas" the map maker already knew of the bugs and chose not to fix them for the sake of releasing the beta a little bit earlier. Dumb. The purpose of a beta is to find any bugs that you as a developer can't find and to judge the playability of the map. A beta map should be as close to the final product as possible. Yes I know this is my opinion but it happens to be right. 
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996780] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 17:14 |
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I have no problem with beta maps per se. My problem is releasing them to the general public. Before long you can have 4 or 5 different versions of the same map floating around. Not to mention the trouble it is to mirror each one. I'm pleading with the mappers here to do the same as other communities do. Beta test it in a closed setting and then release a fairly finished product. Keep it as long as it takes. Most other communities it takes months to turn out a decent map. Here it's taking only days.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996778] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 06:15 |
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release a beta, people cry about bugs dont release people cry about no maps. and comning from someone with 70 posts you dont know much, so shut up and let people do what they want and its not like they have to release a beta, people want it so they download it, if you cant keep up with versions just dont get it.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996776] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 06:49 |
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This is a mistake that I made with Fortress and truly apologize, but the map I have released recently Fortress 2.0 is the absolute last version I will release. It still has it's problems, but they are just a few graphical glitches.. and I mean 'FEW' so anyhow in the future I will only release to a few people and try to fix all the bugs ahead of time. Thanks for the advice, this thread hasn't been in vain. By the way..
Star Wars ep II is the best Star wars yet.. I saw it this morning and I'm going back to see it again later 
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996774] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 07:17 |
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heck no...there IS a point where it gets a bit rediculous...but a few tweaks work to a map's advantage. Just look at country meadow: that's been released in all sorts of phases, but no one's hesitated to D/L that.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996773] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 08:11 |
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Now, I love ACK's map.... But I am stuck in-some kind of in-between version and I can't find the new version.
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996772] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 09:06 |
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agrred. loose the beta..
BUG FOUND in renegade.
EKSAMPEL OF CHAOS!!!!!!!
"in the old days" LMAO-.
When is was makein the sniper arena.
and made dif version. i wanted to play it my self. so i saw a server hosting it
so i joined i had SA v1.4 on my comp.
but the server was 1.2 IT STILL ALLOWED me to join. i didnt realize the v difference until i started playing. HUGE clipping erros, MAJOR LAG.. fps = 2-6
and ping only 98.
So i agrre stop releasing Betas, And only realease the final.
Offcourse if there should be some updates. then make sure its stated. So server Admins, can include this in the game name. eks Thismod V2.3 so people know whats goin on there.. have fun
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| End to beta maps. [message #-996771] |
Thu, 16 May 2002 13:32 |
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Rekon,
my number of posts here has nothing to do with what I know. And to whoever, I know this isn't most communities. This community would best be described as a toddler still in need of diapers. Young communities make mistakes. We are only human. BUT...I have been in the gaming business long enough to know of what I speak. Shogo had a problem with Monolith and LithTech not wanting to release anything to modders. Shogo had a problem with excess beta maps(less than I've seen here). Where is Shogo now? It sold more copies than Renegade. The community was much larger. So what happenned? Just all that I named above. I work in the games industry and have for years. I see where this is heading and I am trying inform the community so that maybe we don't make the same mistakes as others. Or is the Renegade community just gonna be another "I'm gonna buck the system and do as I want" community? Do I have to point out other games that have gone the same route? So please, heed a warning from an old man who has seen a little more of the gaming world than you. I'm trying to help.KP
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