Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Cheaters... cheaters..
Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101643] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 08:57 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
spy
Messages: 8 Registered: July 2004
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and well, cheaters...
I'm not quite sure whether this should go to the Renguard area here or not, since it includes Renguard related things but is not all about the program... anyway... in fact I DON'T FUCKING CARE.
The one thing I REALLY CAN'T STAND is joining a server, NOT hearing the Renguard sound, telling me that I don't have to mind cheaters and then play for a while and get OWNED BY SOME OF THOSE FOOLS NEEDING TO BOOST THEIR EGO WITH CHEATING. I would listen to all those who say "then play on another server" if those server wouldn't be the ones with the BEST PERFORMANCE. There really is NO server running renguard and having the performance that is NEEDED to enjoy a good game! I think an 1,2 mbit/s connection should be ENOUGH to enjoy a half-way lagfree Renegade match. But if you have to join a CHEATERINFECTED server to do so you really start thinking if you should quit your favorite game! I've been playing Renegade since the very release date, preordered it and had it imported before the german release so I could start and game along. I had plenty of fun the last years and always came back to Renegade after a while. Even when the cheaters first appeared it still was funny, then the project Renguard was started, I thought now there might be a way to escape that hell the whole community fell into but what happens? Not long after Renguard is released I had to find out that some poeple are too DUMB to INSTALL Renguard or simply want to stay a CHEATER and put CRAP into the net like "Renguard raises your ping", "Renguard doesn't work, you can cheat anyway", "Renguard is spyware", "Renguard opens popups on your computer", "Renguard servers will shut down after a while", "Renguard is an evil EA project" and the real idiots simply state "Renguard is shit". I wouldn't mind if not the ADMINS of some of the BIGGES servers would REFUSE to use Renguard because they believe their servers would be EMPTY afterwards. HELL, EVEN IF THEY NO LONGER HAD THAT MUCH GAMERS PLAYING THERE, AT LEAST THE CHEATERS WERE GONE, AND IF 50% SUDDENLY MISSES YOU KNOW HOW HIGH THE PERCENTAGE OF CHEATING BASTARDS REALLY IS! (just to say: I really DON'T MIND MY LANGUAGE).
The second real problem is that there are PLENTY of real good CUSTOM MAPS, created by GOOD mappers (excluding people like Aircraftkiller, always giving his side of choice an advantage - I'm talking about balanced maps) that don't get better if you don't USE them. There is a maximum of TWO servers running CUSTOM MAPS, one is the "Renwarz" server, using Renguard but real bad performance, the other is part of the "UNRULES.com"-network, sadly the admin is one of the guys above BELIEVING HIS SERVER WOULD STAY EMPTY AND THERE WOULD BE LESS DONATIONS and so NOT running Renguard on his server. (if I talk of custom maps that excludes the sniper variants of some default maps.)
So, if we had more custom map servers running Renguard the community would be MUCH better. I don't think bashin EA is the right way, CAUSE WE WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING AS LONG AS THERE ARE PEOPLE HELPING THEM TO GET THEIR PROFIT. So we have to look for other problems and solve them first. If every server admin would STRICKTLY use Renguard for some time all those cheating bastards would either transform to normal gamers or GO TO HELL LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. I'm quite unsure whether you know what I'm talking about.
Let me define "community". If I talk about a "community" as such, I mean Command & Conquer, and not Generals. Command & Conquer includes Renegade, AR2, Tiberium Sun and everything past, "Generals" is 100% EA, a completely different world. I think we have a big community here since Command & Conuqer once was a synonym for "best realtime stategy you can get". The problem with this big community is that no one really works together. We have one webiste here, another there, everyone want's to be "official", the best, pure ownage, one of a kind. That's NOT how the ideal idea of a working community looks like. It's all about "this is my news" and "you stole my news, go to hell" and so on. YOU FIND THE SAME CRAP ON EVERY DAMN WEBSITE YOU VISIT, IT ONLY DIFFERS SLIGHTLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PHRASES USED AND THE LAYOUTS THOSE PAGES HAVE. You know what word hits the nail on the top? BORING! Then we got this board here, WITH PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT PLANETSIDE ON THE RENEGADE PUBLIC FORUMS... DUH! Things would be a LOT better if some of those oh so great websites would simply... vanish or start working together. First of all you might consider to bring an individual touch into everything. You got news, downloads and board, maybe some affilates. So if you've seen ONE you've seen them ALL cause you even meet THE SAME PEOPLE wherever you go!
To make it short: People START WORKING TOGETHER. Make community wide contests! Open a 1on1 league, use custom maps, organize chatmeetings, just DO something to help the community get together or we'll all end up playing Generals one day...
Okay, now let me tell you a story:
Once upon a time there was a cheater. This cheater was called bastard. He didn't choose that name himself, it was given to him by anyone he met on a public server. He had no friends and no talents, he was fat and lazy and bad at school. Thus he was angry, angry at the people and angry at himself. He had bad depressions and had to eat to make them go away. After some years he even grew fatter and didn't make it to the next grade on school. Now the drpessions got so bad that he never did anything else than come home, get some food and start playing. Whenever he started to cheat he was better than the rest, he won on egame after another and people left the server when they saw his nick appear. He felt mighty because he was the master of the game, even if he cheated. He felt the relief whenever he fragged people with enourmous big heads, destroyed tanks with one shot or knew where he would find invisible units because he saw them. But the wallhack was his final kick. He knew he was god then, seeing everybody, able to kill everybody. One day fat dumbo went to a LAN-Party. He was so infected by his own dumbness and the need of cheating that he didn't care whether they would find out about him beeing a cheater. His online-friends on ICQ all knew he was a cheater and accepted that, they were "normal" players but liked him, he never felt like they were playing tricks on him. It was them, who invited him to this Party. So there he was, sitting in front of his computer, he wanted to start the game but when he joined a server he got kicked out. "Ã?ou need to install proper anti-cheat-software in order to play on this server." He tried another one. After half an hour one of his friends saw his problem and told him to wait, he forgot to hand him the disk with the anti-cheat software. Fat man didn't see the grin on the face of that guy or his other "friends". So five minutes later and after quickly moving all the cheats and hacks to a seperate folder he was on the server playing. And he lost... it was a miserable defeat wherever he went. Dead man walking, because he was shot whenever he came round a corner. Suddenly someone started to teamkill him. A furious flame began. After a while the teamkiller was gone and not much later someone tapped h im on the shoulder. He turned around and saw one of his friends having a little child with him. It was the friends luttle brother, 11 years old and he watched his brother playing computer games. His friend told dumbo that he was the one who just killed and flamed him. He sent his little brother away and whispered to bastard that he should take revenge and have a 1on1 with him. So the fat idiot jumped off his seat and went right over to the harmless child. With growling voice he asked the small boy how he dared to kill and flame him. After 2 minutes of speech he was finished and asked him for a 1on1. The little boy agreed immedeately and so the went on for the duel. It was a shame. A little boy killed the god of the game 7 times in a row and died only twice... once because he jumped of a too high place, the second time dumbo blew them both up with his weapon. Suddenly the whol audience was lauging. Dumbo didn't have time to look what was so funny because he had to win this match. He was sure he would get him this time, he was sure, no mistaked any more, once he had him he would... die... HEADSHOT. Dumbos virtual character dropped to the ground like a puppet. The whole hall was laughing again. Now he opened the chatbox and started to shout. He accused the little boy of cheating, called him lamer, again said he'd be cheating. Somewhere far down the hall someone yelled "CHEATER?! I'd rather say 11 y.o. boy you fat dumbo! ROFL". That was the moment when dumbo looked up. On the large screen at the wall, where the final matches of the league later that day should be shown his match was seen! Every little bit has been watched by the whole audience. In fact, no one was gaming any more, 200 people were just laughing at him. He stood up, looked at where the little boy sat. There were all his friends, laughing at him too. He started to cry. He never knew defeat and didn't leave his parents house most of the time, thus he didn't know how to handle situations of anger in reallife and reacted like a child, even younger than his 'friends' little brother, he cried. He began to run, run out of the hall, run to the street, run to the trainstation. He couldn't stand it anymore, that would be published all over the internet, he was the jerk of the whole net. He heard the express train approaching. He jumped. And was no more... at this moment he became a good cheater. Because wa all know... ONLY A DEAD CHEATER IS A GOOD CHEATER. STOP CHEATING OR END LIKE THE POOR FAT BASTARD DUMBO.
Okay, thank you very much, have a nice day.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101647] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 09:06 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756 Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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Lol, I like the story, but I hope it is not something that happened in real life...
Anyways, Aircraftkiller is going to call you a dumbass and yell at you and stuff for insulting his maps in any way.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101659] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 09:43 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
NHJ BV
Messages: 712 Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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One of the problems is indeed that very few people run Renguard. Regardless of how good the program is or how many times it has been downloaded, the number of decent Renguard servers that I know of on WOL Euro is 1. On US there are a few more (mainly the n00bstories servers) but they are mostly empty whenever I look.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101663] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 09:53 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
spy
Messages: 8 Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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Well, nope, the story didn't actually happen (I still belive a little bit in human sanity... at least enough as that no such guy exists), actually, that's why it's only a story. Ehrm, yes, and just to mention: I don't want to insult Alkaline (but he might set up Renguard on his servers anyway), but that doesn't count for AKC. He answers e-Mails with "I think I know mapping better than you anyway" when you politely point out that every single of his map is somewhat imbalanced.
Well, j_ball430, there is a problem as simple as your solution: how do you tell whether the guy is really cheating or not? There are players out there with no life and the capability to kill everything and anyone crossing their way (also called "skill"), some of them are frequently accused of cheating, then it fully depens on how many retards join in and want to have the skilled person out because he plays better than them. And THEN it fully depends on the mod how he decides. If he kicks the guy he either blasted a cheater out of the server or ruined the fun of some really good player. If he DOESN'T he's the dumbass of the nation cause all those jerks wanting to have the alleged cheater kicked will go and post some rumors about that mod, inslut him or complain about him "kicking innocent persons from the server" at his leader's...
Nah, that really is a problem and only Renguard, or at least an command testing whether the person is using Renguard is the solution, example:
[Host/Mod/Player]: !test spy
[Renguard of spy]: Player spy is using Renguard version 1.03 and is NOT cheating.
You might make Renguard reply in a unique way with some sort of can't-be-copied code or a special colour no player can write in. Well, hey, I'll post that into the forums right now
Terminator 101: Yes, a story contest or a "who gets the funniest screenshot?" competition were two things I thought about. Since not everybody is able to create or edit digital images a contest including the creation of some funny pictures would leave most members of the community out. But I'm not quite sure whether I would win a story-contest, there are a lot of people who could beat an 14 y.o. german guy in writing in english
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101668] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 10:23 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
spy
Messages: 8 Registered: July 2004
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See, that's what I mean! Of course I am against cheaters (as easily seen) and of course I'm bitching around like veryone else, BUT I am as stricktly against kicking good players as I am against cheaters! It's just that without Renguard or something you really never can tell! If I go and own some people on your server and someone cires out I'm a cheater cause I always give headshots, will I be kicked? Yes or no? Even if I give headshots in 90% of the cases beacause I had plenty of time to practice and play renegade on 640x480 to get a bigger target without bighead, am I cheating or not? Will I be kicked or not?
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101669] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 10:31 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507 Registered: March 2003 Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
![thejakeball](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/twitter.png)
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spy | See, that's what I mean! Of course I am against cheaters (as easily seen) and of course I'm bitching around like veryone else, BUT I am as stricktly against kicking good players as I am against cheaters! It's just that without Renguard or something you really never can tell! If I go and own some people on your server and someone cires out I'm a cheater cause I always give headshots, will I be kicked? Yes or no? Even if I give headshots in 90% of the cases beacause I had plenty of time to practice and play renegade on 640x480 to get a bigger target without bighead, am I cheating or not? Will I be kicked or not?
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There's a difference though. If someone has 20 kills and 2 deaths, then chances are they aren't playing fairly. If you do get accused, you'll be tested by someone ingame (There is 95% of the time a trusted player or a mod ingame that we'd have test you). While that may take away from playing, it'd be better than kicking you out.
Resolutions make little or no difference at all, so you wouldn't be kicked for that.
whoa.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101688] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 11:22 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
spy
Messages: 8 Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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j_ball430 |
spy | See, that's what I mean! Of course I am against cheaters (as easily seen) and of course I'm bitching around like veryone else, BUT I am as stricktly against kicking good players as I am against cheaters! It's just that without Renguard or something you really never can tell! If I go and own some people on your server and someone cires out I'm a cheater cause I always give headshots, will I be kicked? Yes or no? Even if I give headshots in 90% of the cases beacause I had plenty of time to practice and play renegade on 640x480 to get a bigger target without bighead, am I cheating or not? Will I be kicked or not?
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There's a difference though. If someone has 20 kills and 2 deaths, then chances are they aren't playing fairly. If you do get accused, you'll be tested by someone ingame (There is 95% of the time a trusted player or a mod ingame that we'd have test you). While that may take away from playing, it'd be better than kicking you out.
Resolutions make little or no difference at all, so you wouldn't be kicked for that.
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Well okay, but there always is that human flaw, and if there is a cheater and lets say this cheater has damage hack and kills the harvester at th ebeginning of the game he gets 900 points (had to test that more than once). Okay, the cheater is kicked at once, losses his 900 points... but the teamscore doesn't. And 900 points IS a difference, though it's at the beginning of the game the other team misses a whole harvy load, that's kinda deadly. It's even more frustrating if that happens at the end or in the middle of a long, good game.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101722] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 14:09 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
spy
Messages: 8 Registered: July 2004
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Aimbots | i cant be bothered to read all that
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You don't have to, neither do you have to post. I think long opinions are better than the usual "cheaters suck", my friend.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101737] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 15:10 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
DarkFish
Messages: 49 Registered: January 2004 Location: London, Uk
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Quote: | someone has 20 kills and 2 deaths, then chances are they aren't playing fairly
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I'd disagree with that...I've seen 62 and 0 from someone I know wasn't cheating. k/d means nothing except in context, and even if it did, I wouldn't think 20 and 2 was a likely cheating ratio, especially over the course of a whole game, and I would estimate that most of the people I see on that kind of k/d are not in fact cheating...I might look twice at someone with 30 and 2, but not 20.
![http://www.renguard.com/images/rgsig.gif](http://www.renguard.com/images/rgsig.gif)
The Dark Angels
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101752] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 16:32 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507 Registered: March 2003 Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
![thejakeball](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/twitter.png)
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DarkFish |
Quote: | someone has 20 kills and 2 deaths, then chances are they aren't playing fairly
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I'd disagree with that...I've seen 62 and 0 from someone I know wasn't cheating. k/d means nothing except in context, and even if it did, I wouldn't think 20 and 2 was a likely cheating ratio, especially over the course of a whole game, and I would estimate that most of the people I see on that kind of k/d are not in fact cheating...I might look twice at someone with 30 and 2, but not 20.
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Well we are talking about today's gamers. If someone who has that kind of k/d ratio or even better and they have a name that we all know, chances are that they don't cheat, unless they are people like Twi$ta and Twix. Plus, I mean early to mid game.
whoa.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101764] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 16:54 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
2000_years
Messages: 102 Registered: November 2003
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Hey, the UNRULES server isn't bad at all, when-ever someone is cheating people usually notice and they get kicked.
All of the good players are well known and they don't get booted
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101777] |
Thu, 15 July 2004 18:38 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429 Registered: February 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) ADMINISTRATOR |
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n00bstories server 1 has been nearly full most of the day and night for the past couple of weeks. It runs RenGuard-only, not a half solution.
All you have to do is look at the server list at the top of the RenGuard and it will show you where the games are being played. Just use that and you'll know which server you should join.
I'm the bawss.
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Cheaters... cheaters.. [message #101880] |
Fri, 16 July 2004 02:19 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
NHJ BV
Messages: 712 Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Crimson | n00bstories server 1 has been nearly full most of the day and night for the past couple of weeks. It runs RenGuard-only, not a half solution.
All you have to do is look at the server list at the top of the RenGuard and it will show you where the games are being played. Just use that and you'll know which server you should join.
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That got me thinking: a while back Dante (not sure) released a plug-in that would allow one to connect to Renegade servers from within a browser. Maybe it would be useful to make that serverlist so that one could connect to those Renguard servers from there?
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