| Ring of Evil [message #139135] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 13:30   |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
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The law may be uneforced. useless, whatever. It doesn't matter. The law IS STILL there. A law not willing to be enforced does not automatically invalidate it. In order for a law to be "no more", it must be recinded by the government body that brought it into existance.
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You know what though? So long as the law is just like the Germany clause, I and many Americans will continue to not care about following it and will continue to go to war when we see fit. So you can keep complaining and whining, because in the end... That's all you can do.
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Whether or not someone cares about the law, and (in referance to gbulls post) whether or not they are simply empty threats, the law is still as it is written, and the law is still there.
Oh, and I'm not complaining, nor am I whining. I'm simply stating what the facts are. Though I have yet to see you make a reasonable arguement on anything regarding the law and what is currently being discussed to refute what I have stated. Personal feelings have no bearing on what the law states, so peraonal feelings are not going to work in refuting what the law states. If anyone could be accused of whining on this area we are discussing, it would not be me. I haven't been the one whining on how something is legal because personal feelings dictate it so.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139138] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 13:45 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson |
First of all, you say that everyone should be punished who was involved in the Oil For Palaces scandal... and yet the US should also be punished for going to war with Iraq. NEVERMIND that IF France, Germany, Russia, and others were NOT being bribed by Saddam, they wouldn't have opposed the military action in the first place and would have, in fact, authorized the war whole-heartedly.
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Maybe you can provide some evidence that your administration was in full knowledge of the oil for food scandel before invading Iraq, because as far as I have researched the issue, they didn't.
That means that scandel of not, America would've still gone without the security council's authorization. So, you're still legally in the wrong and now that we have confirmation of the scandel, those other nations are in the wrong for all to see.
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Furthermore, for a contract to be contested, there needs to be a court of law that can make the determination of whether or not the contract was breached. Considering there was NO international court when the UN Charter was adopted, how can you even call the Charter a legally-binding contract? Furthermore, considering the US doesn't and hasn't agreed to recognize the "new" International Criminal Court, how can they in turn be held in violations of the laws that said court is supposed to uphold?
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This is fallacious reasoning. You're saying that if the U.S. is not in violation of any laws, then when Iraq invaded Kuwait in the 1990s, they didn't violate any international law either. But wait that also means that those countries that are involved and "guilty" in the oil for food scandel aren't in violation of any international law either. Sorry, it just doesn't add up. If they are guilty, you are also guilty and vise versa. NO one is above the law, even an American.
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Basically, you spout the words "International Law" while never providing evidence of some "Planet Earth Statutes" or any such documentation of the existence of International Laws.
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I provided to you links regarding this issue already.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
[Updated on: Fri, 18 February 2005 13:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Ring of Evil [message #139177] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 16:39 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Let's see here. Germany = nation. One nations rules do not override another nations rules, hence why international relations promote extradition treaties. Rumsfeld was not in Germany at the time the "law" was broken, so Germany has no say whether or not anything happens.
However, I don't see how that pertains to this situation as the UN is not a sovereign nation. I mean, if you want to argue a point, at least bring in something that is relevant to the situation. The Rumsfeld-Germany situation has nothing to do with this. "UN law" applies to UN member nations, German law applies to Germany, American law applies to America, and Canadian law applies to Canada. America just happens to be a member nation of the UN, and not a nation under Germany. Hence why UN law is applicable here.
Oh but wait... you don't recognize the UN court. Officially that matters as much as an American citizen not recognizing an American court. However, realitically all that means is that the decision wont be followed. The point being that the world court still has the ability to make that decision. It just won't be carried out because the UN lacks a backbone.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139179] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 16:43 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Javaxcx |
| Nodbugger |
We were not the first party to break any of those agreements. And everyone knows that if the other end breaks the contract the contract becomes void to you also.
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That's right. America probably wasn't the first to violate the charter, but you see, the idea of a "contract" when used in this context is more metaphorical than literal. The charter isn't negated by another's actions in defiance. That is why Saddam's actions in Kuwait didn't get his country kicked out of the U.N. and why nations involved had to work (legally) within the U.N.'s juristictions.
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Of course, if this is the contract being referred to, it doesn't matter. Think of it this way. The UN is a landlord, the member nations are the tennants. Just because one tennant defaults on the contract doesn't make the contracts with the other tennants void. Why? Simple. The contract was made between the landlord and each individual tennant, not the landlord and all the tennants. The same is with the UN. The agreement is between America and the UN; Canada and the UN, Britian and the UN; etc. Not America and Canada, and Britian, etc., and the UN.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139270] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 19:59 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| Javaxcx |
Maybe you can provide some evidence that your administration was in full knowledge of the oil for food scandel before invading Iraq, because as far as I have researched the issue, they didn't.
That means that scandel of not, America would've still gone without the security council's authorization. So, you're still legally in the wrong and now that we have confirmation of the scandel, those other nations are in the wrong for all to see.
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I distinctly remember that we knew about Oil for Palaces long before the Duelfer report. I'm too tired to look for links to it.
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This is fallacious reasoning. You're saying that if the U.S. is not in violation of any laws, then when Iraq invaded Kuwait in the 1990s, they didn't violate any international law either. But wait that also means that those countries that are involved and "guilty" in the oil for food scandel aren't in violation of any international law either. Sorry, it just doesn't add up. If they are guilty, you are also guilty and vise versa. NO one is above the law, even an American.
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I didn't say anything about Oil for Palaces breaking any international laws. I referred only to the inherent corruption standing in the way of UN procedures and goals.
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I provided to you links regarding this issue already.
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Huh? Not to my recollection.
I'm the bawss.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139275] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 20:35 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Since I have already done this once, I am only going to post links to the body homepages and let you do your thing with them.
International Court of Justice (Which America is a part of)
Office of Legal Affairs
International Law Commission
The Sixth Committy
International Trade Law
International Law and Conventions on Terrorism
International Law on Oceanic Juristicions
Do I need to go on? You'll notice that some of these links are not the topic of war, but the reason I posted them is to show you that there is in fact an international law recognized through the U.N. and America recognizes it as such.
As for the Duelfer report... I believe that came out in 2004 (unless you're referring to the development of said report, which case it might extend to 2001, I don't know yet). The Iraq war was in 2001.
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April 7, 2004
The U.S. Government Accountability Office alleges that the Saddam regime generated $10.1 in illegal revenues from oil smuggling and surcharges on oil sales through oil-for-food
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Source
Now, if this is the first instance of an accusation against the nations guilty, then it is considerably after the matter of fact, don't you think?
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139292] |
Fri, 18 February 2005 23:06 |
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| hydra1945 |
| Javaxcx |
Keep in mind you can leave at any time... so why haven't you?
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The Democratic Party and a handful of Republicans with no balls.
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Don't like the current situation? Shush and become a politician.
I suck cock and love it... absolutely love it. And I just got banned for being too immature to be allowed to post here.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139310] |
Sat, 19 February 2005 05:23 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I don't think you honestly understand just how deep this "Oil for Food" scandal goes. 24-25 BILLION US dollars equivalent... the money being used everywhere from the Clinton library to the Palestinians...
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/middleeastreports/s_273762.html
And I know for a fact that there was definitely a huge to-do around the Oil for Food program. This program was known worldwide. The Duelfer report did not blow the socks off the world because we already knew the gist of what was in there. This report was merely the start of a detailed investigation into the scandal. Unfortunately it's proving very difficult to find any articles or commentary that far back on this subject because of the myriad of current information you have to dig through to get there.
However, in my searching I am reading more about this scandal that makes me sick. We've even got a Clinton pardonee among the organizers of the money movement. Apparently this guy can't step foot in the US, but he's a billionaire and his money has gone to the Dems and such. A guy named Marc Rich.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Ring of Evil [message #139348] |
Sat, 19 February 2005 10:36 |
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| aircraftkiller |
Germans are communist.
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:rolleyes:
I prefer this one from an european community member :
| Renaud |
aircraftkiller also known as ack or ak or Jonathan D. Holmes is what I call an idiot. He has absolutely no education or intelligence. He makes me think to a farmer who try to prove himself he can be as clever as most of the intelligent people. Did he ever go to an university ? Maybe he should. Not the fact he is younger than me, it's just a total moron.
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Et j'ajouterais : je suis vraiment content de ne pas vivre dans ta ville de merde entourés de connards comme toi. J'ai un pote de Floride qui m'a expliqué à quel point il y a des perdus dans ton genre dans ce pays. Il m'a dit à quel point c'était saoulant. Tu démarres toujours des grands sujets et tu te crois malin... Tu sais que tu perds juste ton temps sur un forum internet à la con à parler avec des gamins de ton genre ? j'espère que tu le réalises. Si ça te prends moins d'une journée pour avoir la traduction de ceci je serai déjà étonné. Ha ha ha... Tu vas chercher à le traduire parce que comme je l'ai dit, t'es qu'un con.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139364] |
Sat, 19 February 2005 12:43 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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And I would add: I am really glad not to live in your town of shit surrounded jerks like you. I have a pal of Florida which explained me at which point it lost there in your kind in this country. It said to me with which point it was saoulant. You always start of the great subjects and you believe yourself malignant... You know that you lose right tone time on a forum Internet with the idiot with speaking with kids about your kind? I hope that you carry it out. If that less than one day to you to have the translation of this I take will be already astonished. Ha ha ha... You will seek to translate it because as I said, are to you that an idiot.
Babelfish eh
I'm the bawss.
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| Ring of Evil [message #139367] |
Sat, 19 February 2005 13:02 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Renardin, don't you live in Belgium?
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Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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