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Unit Balance [message #86306] Sun, 09 May 2004 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Deathgod is currently offline  Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
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PointlessAmbler

Huh, maybe the people you play with use snipers as intended instead of sniping Mammoth Tanks for points even though it doesn't hurt them at all. You may be able to count on that in your own servers, (you seem to have a pretty strict set of rules, including the ability to kick people because they don't play up to your standards (not that I disagree with that kind of enforcement)) but there are countless others where people abuse the snipers' capabilities and the bug in armor.ini elsewhere in Renegade.


Why do you think we have such rules? I tire of people being fagmars in this game, so I don't let them on our server. The pointwhore mentality is pretty rare when we're in a game nowadays. We prefer that our teams will work together on vehicle rushes and tactics designed to win the game by destroying everything rather than by getting points.

PointlessAmbler


Of course not, they're INTENDED to be anti-vehicle units, whereas snipers are not. Plus, note that they have only a 200m range while snipers have a 300m range.


That's still twice what the air units have. They also can kill Stanks in 5 shots, plus infantry in one. TOTALY FUKEN BORKED TEY NED NERFINS MAEK TEM SHOOT CHIKNES TEHN IS FAIRS

PointlessAmbler


Increasing helicopters' durability by itself would be a nightmare for any ground unit. Just look at RenAlert's .991 release. The Apache Longbow pwned absolutely everything, and you could only kill it with like two units. However, if Helipads are implemented and sniper damage against helicopters goes down, the weakness of the helicopter goes away, but it doesn't become the UBER-n00b-PWNZOR vehicle, either, because its ammunition is limited. The two actions balance out. So, helicopters become balanced in addition to making the game closer to the game it's based on.


I never proposed increasing their durability. I think helis are in fact perfectly fine the way they are. The snipers are what appear to be the issue here, so change them. Don't change both because one is broken; change the part that's broken then see how it works when it's fixed. I would point out that the reason I don't play RenAlert is because of things like that. I dislike the way it plays; in Renegade a lot of units can take down aircraft, it's just that everyone thinks snipers are cooler because they do it faster. I have news for them: Rav/PIC are just as good but they hurt ALL the vehicles that much. Also, in the original C&C and in Red Alert you could build antiair structures to counter air units, so the fact that those aren't in Renegade is probably a lot of the reason for allowing snipers to damage them. Flying one Orca into an area with 3 SAM sites and wondering why you died is the same issue as flying one into an area with 3 snipers and wondering why you died; the answer is because you are stupid.

PointlessAmbler


No, because they didn't have to reload in C&C. Also, Stealth Tanks are support units in my opinion because you can't use them in the same way you would use a main battle tank like a Medium Tank or a Mammoth Tanks. Doing that gets you killed. Hence, I consider it a 'support' unit. Sure, they do lots of damage, but if you don't approach from behind, or travel with other Nod vehicles, or are unstealthed all the time because you fire at Rifle Soldiers, you're going to get killed, fast. I've lost count of how many times Stealth Tanks have decloaked and fired at the front of my Medium Tank, leading to their quick death.


You can use Stanks in the same way, you just have to be a good driver. I don't think the fact that it requires skill means it's a support unit... frankly I fear a rush of Stanks more than just about anything in the game, except maybe a Mammy rush on certain maps. Pointing out that people who use certain units are stupid players is not justification for a balance change.


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