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Re: Questions I would like to pose to athiests [message #463097 is a reply to message #463094] Tue, 28 February 2012 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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eatcow wrote on Tue, 28 February 2012 13:35

There is a wall between our communications.

that's exactly right, and it's that one of us is intellectually honest and the other is not.

Quote:

Evolution without some being designing it immediately implies the products of evolution must be by chance.

the only honest thing you've said so far was when you admitted that you don't know enough about evolution. it's ok, i get that. you don't need to prove it further by saying its products are down to chance.

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Historical accuracy and interpretation of the Bible are two different subjects and you are confusing the two and meshing them as one.

ah, you wanna do some "theology", you wanna pretend that what the bible says isn't what it means (cos that's what theology is when you look at it from the outside)

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You refer to the flood. Ancient secular sources like the Epic of Gilgamesh also describe a catastrophic flood. Archaeological evidence also point to a major flood that covered the area described in the Bible where Noah resided which if you remember your history was the known world at that time.

...so the biblical version of events was wrong. Not an "interpretation" - downright wrong.

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Hell in terms of Christian theology, which I believe you to have inadequate knowledge of, is at its core, the absence of God. God is love and love is God. True love stems from God. Thus Hell is the absence of love since God is love. God is fiery love, Bible describes Him to fire. Therefore Hell is a fiery place of torture because the soul is deprived of the burning love of God.

If this is what an adequate knowledge of theology makes you end up saying, I'm glad I'm not a theologian.

You're talking about a place where people are sent to burn as a punishment. Don't talk to me about "love". You obviously don't know the meaning of that word either.

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More Christian theology. Lazarus was raised from the dead through the power of Jesus.

...which debunks your earlier statement that Jesus's teachings must be valid if he rose from the dead. Even the Bible disagrees with you.

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The devil has his power because God permits him to have it. This does not mean God endorses the devil, instead it makes people who follow God true lovers of God.

again, debunks your earlier statement that if someone has supernatural powers, it must make them a good guy.

Quote:

I believe you are referring to Zechariah with the zombie stuff. Those passages describe a disease, nothing about the undead so some of it depends on how you define zombie. Leprosy was major back then and had these kinds of symptoms described, not to mention others.

no... i was referring to the zombie uprising described in one of the four gospels. i forget which one, it doesn't matter. when jesus is crucified all the graves open up and the saints rise from the dead and flood into the city. quite a lot of people rise from the dead in the bible, eh? btw, do you think that happened too?

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Catholic theology: The Catholic Church never stated as official dogma that all Jews were guilty of murder. If so, state which Church Council and what year.

did you actually know this about your church? that it was deliberately and systematically pumping out anti-semitism as a core teaching?

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This idea stems from some Christians (unfortunately) who read the Bible and condemn the Jews for the murder of Jesus, deicide. These Christians sadly took out their anger on Jews.

christian antisemitism is, indeed, rooted in the Bible.

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Look at WW2. The Pope and the Catholic Church saved thousands of Jewish lives by smuggling them out of Europe, hiding them in monasteries and churches.

maybe so, but only after the catholic church had collaborated with the Nazis in the first place. the church had been pumping anti-semitic propaganda into Europe since before Hitler was even born, let alone rose to power. the church instructed catholics to vote for hitler in exchange for catholic control of education, the church supported and collaborated with the Nuremberg laws, etc etc etc. about half of the SS were practicing and confessing catholics, and not one of them - not a single one - was thrown out of the church either for war crimes or for their part in the holocaust. and this was at a time when the church was very fond of excommunication - every communist, for example, was automatically expelled. lots of people were excommunicated for various dissenting theological writings. but war crimes and the holocaust? nah, go ahead.

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A Catholic priest gave up his life to save a Jew in a concentration camp because the nazis were sending the Jew to the gas chamber and the priest took his place.

one individual priest? you think that absolves the guilt of the church?

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This is my last post for at least a week. If your going to respond Spoony, then please show the fault(s) in my two arguments for the existence of a God since this is what pertained to our original subject of the creation of the universe. Spend time and actually read what it was I posted in my arguments.

i think you're the one who needs to read what you posted... it's a dishonest, glorified way of saying you don't know how the universe started so you know who must have done it. that's like saying you know who a masked man is because he's wearing a mask.

Jerad Grey

So I take it you do believe it is just random chance then?

...no?

Quote:

And, what is the difference between natural selection/survival of the fittest or random chance?

...seriously?

natural selection means those species that are able to adapt to their environment survive and propagate their DNA, while less successful species die out... this is not random chance, it's basically the opposite of chance.

Quote:

Quote:

Whether this stuff is true or not is a serious question. Especially if there's a hell. The stakes are quite high.

The stakes are of no consequence as the people that believe this stuff have their reasons for believing it just like the ones that don't have their reasons for not believing it; and I highly doubt either party will be able to convince any members of the other to believe otherwise, especially in a forum setting.

perhaps eatcow would like to examine his own posts about hell, and wonder how it is he ended up posting euphemisms and apologetics to explain away his god's torture chamber.


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