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Re: Google [message #445362 is a reply to message #445359] Mon, 28 March 2011 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
EvilWhiteDragon is currently offline  EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 28 March 2011 08:32

Okay, even said; that really doesn't apply at all. Here's why:

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"Powerful and continuing nationalism"


There is too much dissent and apathy on this subject for it to be remotely relevant. Most US citizens don't care about their country beyond what it can give them for free.


Well, in my opinion the forced national anthem every day?/week? at primary schools is a form of nationalism. There are other things as well, but I can't find the proper words for them right now. Will come back on it once I find them.
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"Disdain for human rights"


That's why we're one of the countries that routinely tortures and kills its own citizens for protesting the government, and why social services are non-existent. We also don't provide any type of free medical services. We're pretty much the United Syria of America.



Well, it's true that you're not torturing your OWN citizen. You collect them in another part of the world, abducts them to wherever (could be Guantanamo bay, or some other secret CIA prison) and then torture them. That makes it entirely alright. Oh and you also are one of the 27 countries in the world that still apply the death penalty, some invention I would not call the prime example of civilization.
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"Identification of enemies as a unifying cause"


This applies to many countries, not just us. I fail to see the reasoning here. It's easier to get the populace behind an idea than it is to get them behind a set of ideas that describe a variety of situations and people.


It's true that it applies to a lot of countries, but that doesn't mean it's not a sign of fascism. Let's face it, there are more non-democratic countries in the world that democratic countries. In the case of the USA, it is terrorism.
While I agree terrorism is a problem in the world, I also believe that terrorism can only prevail when your average citizen is afraid of terrorism. I know it's possible to get injured or get killed by a bomb or w/e, but I also know that it's a lot more likely that I get killed in a car accident (even though statistics say that the Netherlands is one of the safest countries regarding traffic!)
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"Supremacy of the military"


The military answers to the people, not vice versa. Only in rare exceptions does this not apply, e.g. Area 51 and other top-secret bases.


I think you're taking this one a little to literal, glorifying the military would also count as far as I can tell.
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"Rampant sexism"


Like Europe is enlightened on that subject? You people are practically where this shit started.


I'm unsure what you mean here? Also I do not see how this applies to either Europe or the USA in current times. Yes, the USA could be considered more prude than the EU, but I don't think that's relevant here.
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"Controlled mass media"


By whom? Businessmen? That's new!


Well, the point one can make here is that "the news" claims to be independent. It's questionable how for ex. different TV stations, that are owned by the same businessman, will provide you with different news. It is rather plausible that the political preference of the businessman is to some extend reflected in the news.
It's also known that in order for journalists to go into Iraq during the war, they could choose, either they got censored by the army and could hitch a ride, or they would not get any protection at all. Not even the guarantee they wouldn't get shot by USA soldiers.
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"Obsession with national security"


I'd wager that less than half of our populace gives a thought to national security on a weekly, if not monthly basis. There are other things people care about more, such as: food, fucking, sleeping, etc.


It's on a national level, not the level of your average citizen. Politicians don't have to worry about your food on a weekly or even monthly basis now do they?
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"Religion and government intertwined"


See: ACLU; also see: judicial activism against religion in government.


Never said that all of them where true for the USA. Although I personally feel that there is a lot of Christianity influence in the US culture, even to an extend where politicians that do not believe in God could have serious issues with the people. However, I think this one cannot be (easily) applied to the USA today.
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"Corporate power protected"


By what? Congress? Osamabama? Corporations get a lot of free rides but they aren't "protected" by any means. See: AT&T, Microsoft, etc.


You name an interesting one there, with Microsoft. Bush used his powers to prevent MS having to split into multiple corporations.
Also, it is widely known how much power lobby groups have in the USA. While this is not strictly a bad thing, it does make it hard for the government to apply needed business rules. The creditcrisis shows that there is need for outside regulation in some markets.
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"Labor power suppressed"


Suppressing themselves? Sure. We'll do that. Ask General Motors what they think of labor power and you'll get an idea of why labor, at least in the automotive sector, is suppressed. Fuckwits nearly destroyed their respective industry.


I'm not sure what you're referring to?
Might give me new insights in how it is or is not suppressed.
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"Disdain for the intellectual and the arts"


Plenty of "intellectuals" have issues with other "intellectuals" and the "arts". Whose definition are we going with here? Some obscure image whose definition of "intellectual" and "arts" is nebulous at best?


Again, not all have to apply.

And although I do not know enough about the USA to judge this point, I do know that in my own country, currently, there is a change going on. A change that influences a lot of artist and a change which makes the politician not responding to scientific reports and proof, but what they believe it is. Populism would be the word I think.
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"Obsession with crime and punishment"


Well, yeah. Don't do that shit if you don't want to go to jail.


Well, I find that to be a little shortsighted. Let me explain with two examples.
1) I steal a watch from a jewelery store. This should obviously be punished right?
2) I steal a bread from Walmart because my family doesn't have anything to eat. While obviously it's wrong to steal, but in this case one should IMHO receive a lot less punishment.
Punishment should be there to primarily influence the criminal to not do bad things again. It is proven that it is more effective to have a high catch rate than to have long prison terms. Which, I think, makes sense. If you know that you're say 80% sure that you'll get caught, it is likely not to be worth the risk. If you know that you'll get a life sentence but the chance of getting caught is <0.0001% it might prove profitable.
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"Rampant cronyism and corruption"


Found in any government. Tada!


Deflecting, that somebody else is wrong as well doesn't make it right for either of them. Again, example: if my neighbor robs a bank, it's still not ok for me to rob a bank, right?
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"Fraudulent elections"


Are we referring to the attempt of Al Gore to steal the election from G.W. Bush by excessively litigating over "hanging chads" and "voter intent" based on said chads, dimples, etc in voting cards? Or are we referring to the rampant ignorance of the US population (and the world, it seems) on how the government's elections have worked for the past 200 years and more?


Well, if after the recount Al Gore did win, then how is that not a "sort of" fraudulent election? In any way it did not go as it should in a democratic society, where the majority counts. In this case, Bush became and stayed president because the recount was done after the was inaugurated.
It is indeed questionable that this was done on purpose, but still basic democratic values where not met.
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The image is propaganda. Nothing to see here.

/Bolded for her pleasure
//This belongs in the politics forum
///Slashies

If this image is propaganda, then for whom is it propaganda? If it is propaganda it can only be propaganda AGAINST FASCISM, something only few of us will find to be pity I would say? I know I'm happy to live in a free part of the world. I also know that for it to continue to be free, we have to guard our values, what we stand for.

http://www.blackintel.org/usr/evilwhitedragon/pointfix.gif
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/

V, V for Vendetta

People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.

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