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| Re: WBC [message #443545 is a reply to message #443533] |
Fri, 04 February 2011 02:39   |
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Spoony
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| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
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you're trying to create a mystery where none exists. seems to me that either the prophets who claimed to have received "revelations" from this god were lying or crazy, or if it's true, then the god was incompetent. The dumbest person on this forum could have done a better job of it.
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Really hoped with as intelligent as you seem on a forum board you would have come up with a better explanation of what you mean, other than, again.., referencing the people as "crazy or lying". Don't really know what to say to you here..
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sorry to hear that.
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I remember you saying this before; you went on to say that "the entire book of Exodus is scientifically proven". I hope you don't still think that?
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Big statement, right? The entire book being scientifcally proven? A poor remark on my part, let me divulge. Many events in the book of Exodus, and many things that were referenced such as the battle, cherriot's, location/etc, were found by scientists, and many things that were stated in the book were to be confirmed to exist, or confirmed to have happened. It's a big book, and it is a poor remark to say the entire thing is scientifcally proven, because in my mind I was thinking only of the physical things they were able to resolve scientifcally. However, this does not account for the rest of many of hundreds of words in that book.
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Better.
Suppose in a thousand years' time, after a nuclear war or something and the collapse of big chunks of our current civilisation, people find a Spiderman comic. This superhero who supposedly lives in New York. Then they find the rubble of New York. Finding out that New York was real doesn't prove much about the existence of Spiderman, does it?
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Again, don't really have anything to say here..
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yeah. it's one of those comments that probably sounds better in the mind of the theist saying it than the atheist hearing it. it's like when a christian says god is always watching over us, a remarkably similar phrase to something in 1984. they probably think it's a comforting thing to say.
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Do you think hell is a real thing?
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I think that people have distorted the idea of heaven and hell to the point where they are taught to be physical realms that exist, or actual places. Do I think there is a heaven and hell? Possibly. I accept the possibility that they may be actual realms, physically or maybe even spiritually. Spiritually, it would be something that I accept, as of now I don't fully understand. To me at this point they are abstractions representing references from the Bible (it talks about heaven and hell). The thing of it is, though, the bible talks about 'heaven', 'heaven(s)', hell, etc. in many different contexsts. I think most people pick a definition that makes the most sense to them and flow with it, and that the most common one seems to come acrss that they are physical or spiritual realms where you would 'go' (verb) after you cease existence, based upon either your actions in life, or whether or not you are saved.
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fine. then we're faced with the very large number of people who are convinced that hell is a real place of horrific torture, and that you'll go there forever just for not being the right religion, and who spout this poisonous bullshit not just to adults like myself who can logically defend themself but to children.
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I also believe, Spoony, that just because you don't believe in God or worship God, that the lord will automatically deam you to "hell".
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should there be another "don't" in this sentence?
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He loves each and everyone, who are we to say what he would actually decide, when ultimately he is the final say in the matter.
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Really, everyone? Bin Laden, for example?
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I really couldn't help to chuckle here.. What I said is a little abstract. To me, it's a bit of direction to someone who is searching or trying to educate themselves, or even try to understand "God". You cannot believe in something truly, with full faith just by reading it from a book. You cannot be forced upon yourself, to believe in any God, 'a' God, or be forced to agree that all of this information is true. It is a decision that each individual has to make for themselves. It is something that is decided over time, through experience, that a lot of people never actually find the answer for themselves even by the time they have lived and died.
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I'd be interested in hearing your opinion to my thread entitled "A psychological question: 'Choose to believe", here in Heated Discussions. I ask whether belief is a decision at all.
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I really hope the best to you Spoony, whatever it is you learn about this subject in life. I hope you do come to know God, if you do not I don't think any less of you. However, the internet is really not a good place for this. Talking to people in person is much more critical - set the internet ego aside and the urge to be this macho intelligent egostically individual on an internet forum who types like a God (not calling you out on this, making an example of average discussions amungst internet-goers), and actually have a heart to heart discussion with various people. Ask others then just who you are around all the time to. Discuss, ponder, think, search. If you don't care about any of this, that works too; no hard feelings.
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I assure you that everything I've said about religion - except perhaps for the occasional joke - has been sincere, and rooted in a desire for skepticism, the continued pursuit of knowledge, and the struggle for human rights (against religious barbarism more often than not).
i certainly don't think bashing religion makes you intelligent; indeed i've said before that you don't need to be particularly bright to see what a crock of shit SOME religious claims are.
and as for the internet not being a good place for this, it's actually the best place for it because there's the least amount of censorship. blasphemy laws and so on. we have those in Europe, they're a relic from a time when the christian churches had everything their own way, and they really could and did force us to believe their bullshit. you wanna see how well that worked out, just look at pakistan today.
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Everything you wrote is a result of your experience in life, and nobody elses. Thus, leading you to believe what you do, and set the foundation for the principles by which you live. Point being, belief is through experience; your experience. No one is going to change what you have been through, how you feel, or what you believe except for yourself.
No one can tell you God exists and make you believe it. Not a single Christian, or servant of God can sit down and say "this is why I believe in God and why you should reconsider your beliefs". That is utter crap. These people may not be the smartest people in the world, but through their own experiences in life they have come to know God, and form that relationship. Someone's relationship with God, is not something that can be explained to anyone else. They understand it because it is their own.
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Of course, if you swap "God" for "Thor" or "aliens", you don't need to change another word (except "Christian")
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My only advice to you is do not condemn a person for believing what they do. Understand that they believe what they do as a result of their own life experiences. Just as they do not understand what you have been through in life, you don't understand their experiences either. Being told an experience is one thing, but being that person and living it is inexcusably different.
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i hope you don't think i'm "condemning" a person just for what they think; i've argued against thoughtcrime many times, especially given the fact many religions thrive upon the concept.
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I am not here to pick apart everything you say to disprove it, or insult your intelligence and/or beliefs.
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You'd be very welcome to.
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I am not here to argue or pursuade you into thinking their is a God, but my opinion is simply that a subject like this, a belief that essentially effects your entire life, is not something that is decided over night and set in stone. My opinion is that through your life experiences your own opinions may or may not change. You will mature, mentally/psychologically, and you may reconsider things, or you may change over time. Your beliefs will probably change. Maybe alot, maybe a little.
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this is all fine, and it's the enemy of organised religion... that'll tell you "here's the truth, you must believe it, you'll be punished if you don't".
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What you believe right now and in the future is for you to decide. There's no God? That's your belief? Good for you, I'm happy you feel that way.
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I think you might actually struggle to find a post from me where I assert the non-existence of any particular god.
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There's nothing I can do to change that and its not my place to say one way or the other. However, a few years from now when something happens in your life that effects you on such a massive level that causes you to rethink things like this, you will probably look back and see that it has taken all that time, and through that experience, to get to that point in your life where your beliefs are more mature then they are now. I am not saying something is going to happen all of a sudden where you feel there is a God, but I am saying things will happen in life that will either change what you believe or build upon what you already belief; again, your beliefs will mature.
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and if something really does happen to make me think that there's a particular God, then it's always worth remembering Hume's advice. i.e. am i really seeing a miracle here, a suspension of the natural order, or am I mistaken?
if everyone involved in writing the bible asked themselves that, it might be a very different book.
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Re: WBC
By: Dover on Thu, 13 January 2011 07:48 |
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
By: Altzan on Thu, 13 January 2011 15:22 |
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
By: Duck on Sat, 15 January 2011 15:48 |
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Re: WBC
By: Spoony on Sat, 15 January 2011 23:13 |
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Re: WBC
By: Spoony on Wed, 02 February 2011 18:56 |
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Re: WBC
By: snpr1101 on Tue, 01 February 2011 00:27 |
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Re: WBC
By: Spoony on Thu, 03 February 2011 08:11 |
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
By: Spoony on Fri, 04 February 2011 02:39 |
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
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Re: WBC
By: Spoony on Mon, 07 February 2011 06:34 |
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Re: WBC
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