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| Re: WBC [message #443538 is a reply to message #443533] |
Thu, 03 February 2011 23:18   |
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Starbuzzz
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| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
Yes, it's true that each book is God inspired, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still historical writings by individuals during those time periods. At any rate, I am not here to debate a technicality on ones defining interpretation of the definition of the Bible.
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I too am not here to "debate a technicality on ones defining interpretation of the definition of the Bible." Merely making a very simple note on what I have been told all along as to what the bible is. Jeez.
If the book is "God inspired" nothing else matters; you didn't even have to mention that they were historical writings by people living in those time periods. It becomes the word of god; no questions asked. I wonder why this exercise was necessary.
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
If you do not believe in God pretty much all of this means absolutely nothing to you. It's probably a fairy tail in your mind. However, for those with strong faith they do study and find understanding that makes the most sense to them.
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I have had plenty of opportunity to meet such people of "strong faith they do study and find understanding that makes the most sense to them." Some are oridinary believers. But more appropriately, they are the so-called "professionals" in the field of "theology."
After I announced my atheism to my family in May 2009, they feared for my soul and using their vast network of church connections, were able to invite and bring in the most "accomplished" theologians to try to save my soul. They took time off their busy schedules to come to the home and try to "reason" with me. You seem to imply that these seminary-educated fools (I am sincerely sorry) know something the rest of us don't. You may even think of them as some sort of elite cream that understand god and the universe better than the common believer.
I am sorry to disappoint but I was amazed to see that such people, the ones claimed to have "strong faith that study the bible" turned out to be the most ultimately dim-witted naive individuals I have ever had the dishonour of meeting in my life. So short-sighted in their arguments, chock full of fallacies, embarrassing their own selves.
Why would you put so much trust in such folks? Have you actually met such people who "have strong faith and study the bible" as I have? They are full of dogmatic fundamentalism with a air of elitism; very dangerous elements that stand against and oppress human intellect and curiosity; the very foundations of our future.
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
I really couldn't help to chuckle here.. What I said is a little abstract. To me, it's a bit of direction to someone who is searching or trying to educate themselves, or even try to understand "God". You cannot believe in something truly, with full faith just by reading it from a book. You cannot be forced upon yourself, to believe in any God, 'a' God, or be forced to agree that all of this information is true. It is a decision that each individual has to make for themselves.
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You seem to misunderstand. If one needs "a bit of direction" to find your god, then your god doesn't deserve to be found, let alone worshipped. I hope my example wasn't that hard to understand; left all alone in the jungle and growing up by yourself, would you have, all by yourself, come to worship the god you worship now and refer to as "Lord" with the gender of a
male? Please tell me this.
You had influence, rumours, parental teaching, church indoctrination, geographical factors (such as being American born in a predominantly Christian nation), etc etc. All these factors influenced you in your decision as they do to people of different faiths. Take away such factors and tell me if one can truly find YOUR Lord? Are you sure you have found the the right god? That you have found the right answer in your lifetime?
I would hope now my example with finding a nature goddess would start to make sense.
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
It is a decision that each individual has to make for themselves. It is something that is decided over time, through experience, that a lot of people never actually find the answer for themselves even by the time they have lived and died.
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Time and experience have NOTHING to do with finding god whatsoever. Hard evidence of their existence and their handiwork is needed.
2 nights ago I was in a massive head-on collision with another car while with my sister. Did the experience make me find god? A emotionally-weak individual may have found "God", in the immediate emotional, shocked, and stunned post-accident moments, through that "experience."
Seconds after impact and checking my sister, I immmediately and instantly understood how lucky I was to be able to survive unscathed...and that at within the same hour of my crash, thousands of innocent poor humans just like myself and my sister DIED in traffic accidents across the entire world.
That's the truth. The cold-hard truth. We are either lucky or unlucky. Despite the grandest of our delusions, random lotteries our lives are. Ultimately, if we have any hope to find a deity, we need evidence for such a deity of acting in not just our lives, but in the lives of EVERY human being. Above all, we need evidence for the existence for such a god. We need the evidence for their alleged handiwork.
There is more reason to suggest we are all alone in it for ourselves than to suggest a benevolent diety is watching over us. We have to save ourselves; from ourselves and from the cold harsh universe we live in, and whatever else it hides. We can sink into delusion of a diety watching over us but alas; while I lie tonight on my cot on the floor and type this response to you on my laptop in a warm comfortable room, my heart feels for the woman in Africa that is being gang-raped at this very moment or the young child in some hospital in the American heartland that would have died of cancer tonight surrounded by his teary mom and dad by the time the sun arrives at my window sill tommorrow morning.
life.
chance.
I maybe next; nobody knows. Will I be alive next Friday? Fate strikes at will. I would admit my vulnerability than feel secure in a delusion that won't help me when cold harsh reality strikes.
by all means, let the lord or god or gods or goddesses of humanity actually do something other than play "have faith" games of hide-and-seek and actually show their handiwork in our lives.
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
Ask others then just who you are around all the time to. Discuss, ponder, think, search.
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Why do you think atheists and agnostics are growing in numbers! More people are doing what you suggest above.
I think this is a typical elitist advice being given to a atheist asking the atheist to leave his immediate company of friends (assumed to be atheist themselves) and go talk to people of different beliefs to gain a different prespective.
Again, this is a double standard as no Christian parent will ever give this advice to his children. Instead, they will try to keep them FROM asking others who do have different beliefs in the fear they may get influcened by them.
And that's exactly what happened to me.
I knew people were different than me outside my immediate family and so I reached out to them specifically. Growing up in my Christian environment of a home and all the Christian family-members, I had so much opportunity to meet others and I used such opportunities to ask the questions to people of different faiths. I pondered, thought, searched and discussed the issue more then anyone else in my entire family with people of different prespectives. And only then I realized my initial position was untenable, wrong, and became atheist. Figure!
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
However, the internet is really not a good place for this. Talking to people in person is much more critical - set the internet ego aside and the urge to be this macho intelligent egostically individual on an internet forum who types like a God (not calling you out on this, making an example of average discussions amungst internet-goers), and actually have a heart to heart discussion with various people.
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Atheism is misunderstood all the time by believers. Atheists don't have the answers nor do they have any obligation to provide any. But when they hear someone come along with the "answer" passing it off as "truth" then there is bound to be a endless stream of scrutiny. The greater the claims, the more extraordinary the scrutiny.
I hope you make a distinction of when a person is being egoistic and when he is truly asking honest questions. Asking critical questions and not conforming to the hive-minded crowd doesn't make a person "macho intelligent egostically individual." Come on...
If I remember, back in 2008, I resented Spoony not because he was being offensive and egoistic, but because he was asking incisive questions that tore away at the foundations of my faith.
| Dave Anderson wrote on Thu, 03 February 2011 19:54 |
Correct, and ultimately like I stated, this is strictly why I am opposed to classifying myself as any 'one' 'religion''. Simply it is a category. "Our religion is right, and yours is wrong".
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I am not so sure considering John 3:16...seems to be something more than just a mere category.
[Updated on: Thu, 03 February 2011 23:19] Report message to a moderator |
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Re: WBC
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