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Re: Questions I would like to pose to athiests [message #442789 is a reply to message #442756] Sun, 16 January 2011 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
R315r4z0r is currently offline  R315r4z0r
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Dover wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 02:52

R315r4z0r wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 19:43

Thinking about it again, paradox was the correct word to use.

If everything must happen, then the end of the universe must be one of the things to happen. Anything that begins must eventually come to an end. That's how our level of reality works. If the universe is infinite, then it can't end. But if it can't end, then it is therefore not infinite because that is something that can't happen. For something to be infinite, there can't be anything that cannot happen; even if it doesn't make any sense to us.

What I was saying earlier is that we can't comprehend a lot of things that is supposed to happen in the universe. That means that it is very possible for the laws of physics, logic, and reality to change drastically. However, despite that, it doesn't change the idea that an infinite universe must encompass all things possible. All things in our level of reality included; meaning all things must eventually come to an end.



It's like you didn't read my response. If you did, you certainly didn't understand it. Let me try going slower;

1) There is a certain probability that any given event will occur.
2) If that probability is greater than zero...
3) and given an infinite amount of time...
4) then that event will eventually occur.

Does "the universe coming to an end" satisfy condition 2? If you think so, why?

That's what the second part of my post pertains to (the part you failed to quote.)

You're only talking about time and the probability of something happening according to our (human) way of comprehension.

The term infinity is similar to the term omnipotent in that both are used to describe the presence of all things.

Just like mathematical number sets such as
whole numbers [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.....]
odd numbers [1, 3, 5, 7, 9,....]
Integers [...-3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3....]
etc.

An infinite set encompasses every single combination of numbers possible. From every single number to every single tiny trillionth decimal place and forever onward. There is literally no end to each number and no end to the amount of numbers in this set.

If any one element of this set is not present, then, by definition, the set cannot be considered infinite. This includes the number 0, which is symbolic for nothing or the absence of something. Therefore, when you're talking about things in terms of reality, this also has to encompass things that have 0% probability of happening.

Something with a 0% probability obviously doesn't exist and cannot happen, however it still needs to be calculated if the universe is truly infinite. It's the lack of their probability to happen that needs to be observed and taken into consideration.

Whether or not the universe can truly end is beyond our understanding, but if the universe is truly infinite we have to accept that the idea of it ending (or lack there of) cannot be omitted. Doing so would be like omitting the number 0 from the number set infinity; if you do that, the number set is no longer considered infinite. So, taking away the idea of the universe ending means that the universe is therefore not infinite.
 
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