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it's interesting you're immovably focused on this part of the statement as opposed to either of the two more important parts, 1: the anti-pointsfix crowd had already been caught rigging these polls, 2: nobody important at clanwars ever said that poll was worth a damn thing, whereas it was made clear that the debate thread was central in determining policy.

what i still can't understand is why you would do something that everyone disagreed with
for example the soul case, had he just been allowed to play then clanwars.cc wouldn't have been breathing down your neck about the Renegade league

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this is because you're a fucking idiot who can't or won't understand a really simple but really crucial point.

you don't care whether or not your playerbase is happy
you care about what you'd rather have based on what you think is right, even if that means hosting an empty league
what do you think i don't understand?

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the longer your list is of people who want a pointsbugged ladder, the sadder it is that not a single one of them could give enough of a shit to provide one themselves. you keep calling me a douche for running the league the way i think it should go... how stupid are you? why have you never called EVERYBODY ELSE ON RENEGADE a douche for not giving enough of a shit to provide a league at all? you really are thick if this has never occurred to you, even if i hadn't carefully tried to spell it out to your dumb ass over and over and over and over again.

you're rude!
they're douchebags because they would rather you run the original points than the pointmod in your league?

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i'd rather call it a fact than a law.

why is everything you say fact?

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again, this is a really sad attempt to shift the fault. the reason nobody other than me hosted a league is because nobody could give a shit about the clan community. even when they admit to not being able to care enough - as simpee said - or even when they say that they would not lower themselves to hosting something for renegade - as orca said - you seem intent on thinking that what's easily explained by apathy and selfishness is actually caused by something noble.

if that's the way it actually was then i'd agree with you
i just have a very hard time believing that everyone in cw.cc was like that
and i think that had that been the case you wouldn't have hosted it at all

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i know you're probably having a hard time grasping the unbelievably pathetic low to which the clanwars.cc community sunk during the Soul episode, and i understand that. still, everything i've said about it is true. it was me and blkst0rm vs the entire clanwars community on an issue, we were dead right and they were dead wrong. this is a much sharper divide than the pointsfix poll you're talking about. and they were so catastrophically wrong that if they'd been "listened to" (obeyed), there's a very real chance the entire league would have been shut down. and, as i've said, because they weren't obeyed they actively tried to sabotage the league by using an exploit to get as many people banned as possible. getting the entire league banned seemed preferable to them than allowing spoony and blkst0rm to ban someone who was pointpushing and photoshopping screenshots. remember this when you talk about how it's spoony vs everyone else at clanwars, cos whenever this happens i have a history of being right and they have a history of being crashingly wrong.

would it have been the end of the world had you let the clanwars players play with their pointpushing best friend and avoided the whole scenario altogether? you fought the good fight but was it worth it?

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i've purposely left my original statement in the quote box, so everyone can see the point i made illustrated again by your reply to it. look at the point i made, about how i just can't get you to show the slightest reaction to incredibly important things, and yet all you can focus on is counting how many people are on which side.

it's because i don't believe you when you say the only people against using the pointmod in clanwars were simpee and his named band of rapist cheaters

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then perhaps you can explain the Yes and Don't Care votes to the poll, given the fact that added together they outnumbered the No votes (and also given the fact that I didn't waste my time voting at all). we're being very generous and assuming that the anti-pointsfix crowd DIDN'T rig that poll, which would make a change. the result would be the majority either liking it or not minding it.

hmm?

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i would think it sad you fell for that lie, but you fell for all the others.

i didn't think either way about whether whiskey liked the pointmod or not, i just understood how they could be correct

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whiskey was originally against the pointsfix, then changed his mind. the anti-pointsfix crowd were simply intolerant of anyone who disagreed with them (just look at the pathetic way they've continually treated me). there'd just HAVE to be some other explanation for whiskey's opinion than "he thinks this is a good thing for the league"

i understand that
that's why i said it could have gone either way, i didn't know for sure

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i certainly gave them every opportunity.

if every clanwars.cc member enjoyed openly engaging in debates on the forums it would have worked more the way you'd intended it to

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much, much less of a douchebag than you, as i've tried over and over and over again to explain

how rude!
if i ran a league and everyone was telling me one thing i'd more likely than not side with them
though if what you tell me is true it's further from everyone than i thought
and i may be mistaken

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consider how many times you've called me a douche for running the league in the best way i can, and then look at your own wheedling excuses for why you haven't said anything bad about some extraordinarily fucked up behaviour from the people you've been defending.

you've said enough about them yourself, and they haven't drawn any hate from me
i don't agree with how they did things but i wasn't there for any of it
had i been i'd probably say the same thing you are

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yes, since at no point from the beginning of the episode until now has it been demonstrated that they even existed

clanwars.cc members that didn't rig polls? i'm sure they existed

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you surely realise that there was a point in time at which i went from not being a clanwars admin to being a clanwars admin, and therefore a point in time when i was a clanwars admin who had zero practical experience.

it's because you wrote strategy guides for maps like Field

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no assumptions are necessary, you can just look at the facts. i attempted to recruit for renadmins many times, and the overwhelming majority of the community either didn't apply or did apply and turned out not be diligent enough to spend the very small amount of time it takes to do the AR's. i can count on one hand the number of people from the clanwars community who turned out to be good admins willing to put the effort in. i'm also more aware than most of the extraordinarily pathetic way the clanwars.cc community treats the admins; most of your moderators would quit within a week or so.

most of my moderators probably wouldn't even want to be in that environment because they're from a public community
but that's probably true

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this is just plain wrong. clanwars died when *i* stopped playing, and i stopped playing because i eventually reached the point at which the unbelievably pathetic nature of the clanwars.cc community made me not want to spend any more effort on them (putting me down to the same level as everyone else who didn't run a league for them)

i think it would have been swell of you to keep doing it, despite their abuse, because it was the right thing
at least something you could honestly argue was the right thing, and eventually they would have realized it and some would have it in them to thank you
you would have been a Renesaint

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and the need to lie to everybody for about a week when he was under investigation, including his own clan. i'd call lying to your own clan about the worst thing you can do in the clan world, and that wasn't even the first time he'd pointpushed.

yet they still loved and forgave him
if it's an unforgivable sin why did they almost unanimously want him allowed back in?

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it's not strange at all, why would someone continue to spend their resources for such a cesspool of a community?

that line made me laugh
it doesn't seem like such a cesspool to me, lots of people enjoyed the years they spent there and the fun they had
i'm sure it had low points but i don't think they would have been reason enough to close it down, based on what i've heard and seen
then again IM STILL NO CW.CC ADMIN SO IDK

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that thing i kept telling you about some maps being blatantly unfair, so unfair that certain players would leave if they got the bad side.

aren't there still some maps like that with the pointmod on? like, say, mesa

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then these exact same people later turn up crying about how they think mesa is unfair with the pointsfix, it's enough to make a cat laugh

why wouldn't you just play simpee then and shut him up, your cat would have been laffin

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apology accepted. you realise that everything you just said could be said about the soul episode?

sure, but had you just said Ok you guys are stupid, but at least you've accepted it so we're allowing this pointpushing baby-rapist scumbag Soul to play

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let's be clear that in being so encouraging of debate on the subject i was doing the community yet another favour they didn't deserve. the fact that they either couldn't say why their point bug would be better for the league's fairness than the original renegade points system, or that they were too scared of losing an argument if they had said so (jesus, how pathetic is that) is all on them. it's not a criticism to say that i was so diligent in reading everything everybody said about the issue and responding to every single post; you can make it sound bad but it isn't.

clanwars people are overly competitive, and a lot of them take losing pretty hard
thus the struggles you've had over the years
no they couldn't post why it would increase fairness, but they did try anyways
had the entire league wanted it left on you wouldn't have because they can't prove it increases fairness
what do you lose by letting them play that way? it makes them happy
you're right and everyone is happy at the same time
i think that's what i would have done, but history has shown that that would have made me a bad cw.cc admin

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no, it wasn't. i kept saying that it was bollock-brainedly stupid to get points when you're doing fuck all damage; he said actually yes havocs do do damage, just not very much, and that explains why they get such massive points.

he got you good, you just didn't realize it

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i'm glad that after mentioning these sort of tactics again and again and again, you've finally managed to acknowledge it.

i don't agree; just because some polls in the history of cw.cc were rigged doesn't mean they were all rigged

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still, i wouldn't say that. you're the one putting all your faith in that poll thread

too much perhaps

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and yet even with your dumbass poll thread, you can add up the Yes and the Don't Mind Either Way votes to outnumber the Nos. but like i said, my argument never relied on counting the number of people who agreed with me; it's not so weak as yours.

i wasn't aware of the overall indifference
that or i just forgot or neglected to remember it
and it's not my poll thread, i never made a poll on cw.cc

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yes, it does. the one and only person from clanwars.cc who actually did do what i kept suggesting was whiskey, and he got no end of contempt for doing so.

what does that have to do with you saying no one gave a shit about clanwars.cc

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...that they like playing clanwars? that doesn't demonstrate a generous nature.

who said anything about generous? if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't post or ask things or participate at all

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i know nothing about coding at all, never stopped me. i've always found there to be two kinds of people in this world, people who get the fucking job done whatever the obstacles, and people who come back to you with excuses for why they didn't do it.

what about the people that die trying

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i might add that i offered several times to sell people a league and help them set it up.

there is no clanwars without spoony
if you haven't noticed people seem to want you around, even if they disagree with you

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if they don't even dare say so in the debate thread that's specifically there for the purpose, i don't think i can persuade myself to do what they want.

pfft, have a heart

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you're right about one thing, you're not me. you know fuck all about how to run a ladder, and you've never shown that you care enough about the clan community to put the effort into trying. yes, if nobody can explain why X is better than Y for a rule, nor can anybody refute my detailed assertions on why Y is better than X, we're going with Y and if this makes cheaters and compulsive liars angry, so much the better. if the league becoming more fair has the added effect of angering people who prefer the game not to be fair, this is a bonus rather than a drawback.

if that reduced the league to nothing would it be worth it in your eyes?

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again, anyone can see i did not say that. i suppose it's easier for you to pretend i said something i never said, than to face your own stupidity in placing all your faith in a poll by and for people who'd already proven their willingness to rig them.

erm

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i'm glad that after mentioning these sort of tactics again and again and again, you've finally managed to acknowledge it.

i feel like your statements contradict each other

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my position, by contrast, is very simple and has always been consistent: those polls are worth jack shit to me and always were. debate is what matters. if people lose the debate then i'm not likely to do what they say; and if people are too scared to participate in the debate for fear of losing (my god, how sad is that) then i'm even less likely to do what they say.

a lot of people don't enjoy debating or are no good at it
because they can't win you over with essays because they're incapable of writing them their opinions mean jack shit to you
seems kind of shitty to me

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you're better than this... deal with what i actually say, don't lower yourself into pretending i said things i obviously did not say.

trying to say and actually saying are two different things
from what i gather by your statements you're claiming that they are douchebags because they'd like their preferred settings used in clanwars over your proposed settings but won't actually go out and make their own league to do it

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and yet i'd be far less of a douchebag than everyone who wanted a pointbugged ladder and couldn't be bothered hosting one, and there's nothing you can say that'll change that. do yourself a favour, just admit you've lost this debate. there is no overcoming that argument.

i'm just trying to better understand you, call it what you want
i don't agree with that argument

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then what a pity that in all the overwhelming majority that supposedly wanted the point bug, not a single one could give enough of a shit to make that happen. they couldn't even pull together and do it. meanwhile the people who actually DID deliver the goods - me and whiskey - have gotten nothing but contempt for doing so.

that's untrue
from some people sure, but not all people
you believe that someone asking you to change what you're doing is a douchebag move if they're not willing to do it themselves? or is there more to it than that

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if you still haven't figured out by now that i couldn't give a shit which side of the argument majority is on, i don't think you ever will

back to the soul case, if it's everyone vs. you what do you lose by going with everyone
i'm actually interested in your thinking on that

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no, it doesn't. i'm doing them a favour by hosting them a league at all; they have no reason to expect to be run the way they like.

yeah but does it hurt to ask?

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this sentence is two words too long.

rude
and also mean

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oh dear, you're still under the impression that it was simpee and clearshot not playing any more than killed the league, as opposed to me not playing any more. if the events of the time when they were banned didn't convince you of the reality, how about when a new admin tried to revitalise the league recently with simpee and clearshot unbanned? i didn't play, despite being asked to all the time... and the league didn't fire up. the admin even gave people votes and choices on whether to use the point bug or not, and the league didn't fire up. ouch.

did they play either? probably not
and also, there is no clanwars without spoony
you're embedded in peoples' brains

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what a dumb thing to say

just because people don't post doesn't mean they don't have an opinion on something
if everyone is of the same opinion on something i don't get what you gain by dismissing all of them because you disagree with it
what are you left with then?

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nobody needed to, i was doing a perfectly good job winning the argument despite it being 1v7 or whatever.

write a strategy guide!
that or you were all alone, though like you said that does not matter

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i know you don't want to admit the simple fact that everyone who did speak up against it in the thread were cheaters and pointpushers and rulebreakers and compulsive liars, but it would be better if you just faced that simple fact.

you named everyone that posted in that topic and took a shit on them - this is the band of rapists i keep referring to
i have a hard time believing they're the only ones from cw.cc that wanted to use the original points over the pointmod

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what i said about him was true.

poor zell
i don't remember what it was but it seemed less bad than the rest

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you're dangerously close to a good point there

i think you're ignoring the point i made about expecting everyone to be respectable and mature in such a competitive environment
that's ok though

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no, clear and simpee on the jelly forum.

it doesn't seem like that serious of an assertion if you can easily deflect it