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Re: BHS Ladder [message #438593 is a reply to message #438525] Fri, 29 October 2010 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma:
General (3 Stars)
Quote:

a poll started by a player, without any admin endorsement. decisions at clanwars have never been determined by polls, and anonymous ones are obviously open to rigging... which the anti-pointsfix crowd had already been caught doing.

even if the rape mob comprised of evil scapegoats simpee and clearsh0t had rigged that poll and voted 20 times each it wouldn't help the fact that people weren't voting for using the pointmod

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but even if every single player in the league besides me was adamantly anti-pointsfix, i'd still be right and you'd still be wrong here

i don't understand why someone would want something that upsets everyone else
that seems douchey to me; that's all i'm saying

Quote:

hooray, it's dawning on you how small the community was

yeah, it wasn't that small
it's smaller than people think it was but still

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then there's something seriously wrong with said eyes, since i certainly told them enough times that there was absolutely nothing stopping any of them hosting their own league.

so what? because you say it makes it law? no one wanted to try and outdo you
people have faith in what you do, but they didn't agree with changing the way renegade is scored after everyone had played with it that way for years

Quote:

yes, like they did when blkst0rm and i banned soul for pointpushing with photoshopped screenshots. they were so angry at that that they - again - tried to sabotage the league (by trying to get people banned on purpose). this is the kind of people we're talking about here, the "playerbase" (cheaters) you want me to "listen to" (obey)

who is they? you make it sound like the majority of clanwars.cc went against you and blkst0rm and you're calling them cheaters
you're portraying cw.cc as a bunch of sabotaging cheaters

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seriously, stop trying to euphemise... you aren't any good at it

ur mam

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you seemed very sure at the time. i kept pointing out that the entirety of the people you wanted me to "listen to" were cheaters, pointpushers etc who had a long habit of not "listening" to the, y'know, rules and stuff. i kept pointing out that the "majority" of clanwars have a demonstrable track record of extraordinary stupidity. again, no reaction. i said the last time it was spoony vs the entire clanwars community on an issue, the clanwars community was so catastrophically wrong that if they'd been listened to, it probably would've resulted in the entire shutdown of the league. EVEN THAT couldn't provoke the slightest reaction from you. no, the only thing on your mind was "listen to the playerbase" (obey the cheaters)

i didn't see anyone supporting you
it looked like spoony vs. the world
you labeled the world as cheaters and baby seal killers, but what else was there? you had whiskey on your side, but people felt he was only on your side because he was biased as your right hand man
i didn't get the chance to go from person to person with every cw.cc member and interview them and get their thoughts on the issue; perhaps i should have

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sure, cheating and be punished if it's caught... what if it isn't caught?

then it's still cheating
if a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is around... does it make a sound?

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would you think me less of a "douche" if i did?

sure; if it's your league and people change it into something you don't want without your permission you should do something about it
you don't have to listen to the majority of your league and use their preferred point system, but that just may make you a douchebag

Quote:

don't be stupid. i know you're probably a bit embarrassed at who you were so enthusiastically supporting, but don't be stupid.

they aren't bad people, it's a shame you'll never get to know them
i don't approve of underhanded tactics and what you accuse them of doing, but i don't hate them for it
not all of clanwars.cc rigged polls and did similar things like that, but am i an idiot for supporting them as well?

Quote:

there's no need to make excuses for these people. you can read their own excuses. you may have noticed me directly asking people like orca and simpee why they don't host a pointbugged ladder since they're the ones who think there should be one. simpee said he couldn't be bothered (the honesty came as quite a surprise), orca said he would not lower himself to putting any money or time into running anything for renegade.

it might be more than simpee knows or is capable of, and orca is a criminal from the island of australia
all of the clanwars.cc players that would have enjoyed an original points ladder probably aren't all like orca; you assume the worst in people

Quote:

the entire community was firmly on the side of the guy who pointpushed with photoshopped screenshots and lied to everyone for about a week to try to get away with it (including his own clan, probably the worst thing you can do in the clan world). everyone was hailing him as a hero and flaming the shit out of me for banning him. thanks to how unbelievably low the community had sunk, there was an imminent danger of the renegade league being shut down altogether by the site owners purely because of the embarrassment the renegade portion of the site was causing. i can't fault CLAN WARS for looking at the clanwars renegade forums at the time and wondering why he was spending so much as a cent on such an unbelievably fucked up community.

clanwars.cc came to a screeching halt after you banned simpee and clear
was it justified in your eyes? i'm almost certain of that
does the majority of cw.cc agree with it? who knows, probably not
did that lead to the league going dead? yes
you removed the top clan's top 2 players
the clan people were striving to beat was reduced to nothing
you took that away and there was nothing to play for
i don't know what happened after soul was not allowed to play, but people were biased in that case because he obviously cared a lot about clanwars
a little bit too much, if he felt the need to pointpush in order to get ahead
i find it hard to believe that clanwars was going to cut renegade off of the site due to that, but i'll take your word on it
that's quite strange

Quote:

though several rules had to be made to deal with the problems the bug caused...

harv blocking, oh god not that
what else?
and were these rules so terrible that they ruined clanwars? obviously not, if people wanted to keep using the original points anyways

Quote:

sad to hear you were completely taken in by the lies and manipulations of a group of cheaters, but you didn't believe spoony.

spoony made the claim several times but never expanded on it, so there was nothing to get from it
the cheaters and rapists didn't cover it either, so what was i supposed to think? nobody tells me nothin!

Quote:

completely unsuccessfully.

if every clanwars.cc player has the same view as orca then you're correct
i don't think that's true

Quote:

that doesn't have quite the same kick, though, does it? doesn't actually sound as if i've done anything wrong if you put it that way, does it? so that's no good.

you went against what your players wanted
you neglected to side with them
you dismissed their wishes and went with what you wanted
it all sounds similar
once again i'm sorry, my mistake

Quote:

well, at clanwars it matters whether you actually have a fucking clue what you're talking about, not whether you can find four people who agree with you. that's how rules are decided, and i remind you that not a single person on the anti-pointsfix side had a fucking clue what they were talking about.

hey, i recall you saying this several dozen times
a lot of people don't enjoy debating on forums, and i'm sure you're not one of those people
it seems shitty to the people that may have wanted to use the original points but didn't feel like addressing it because you would have picked their posts apart and made them feel stupid
the same goes for any kind of debate you have in there
maybe they did have a clue and you just dismissed it - maybe some of them would still like to use the original points if a choice were given
who knows at this point

Quote:

no, i said that what he said was stupid, because it was. he said it made sense for ramjets to get bucketloads of points off tanks because they did do damage after all, albeit a very very small amount of damage.

i think his point was that havocs had a way to pay for themselves or earn their keep since they were the 1000 character
the problem with that is what about the mendozas and mobiuses? they have to get way up close and enter far more danger
raveshaws and pics have a harder time than havocs but they have it easier than the volt rifle guys at least
doesn't matter anyways lol

Quote:

you're assuming that all the No votes were different people, are you? that's generous of you, given the fact the anti-pointsfix crowd had already established the practice of rigging polls and lying about the results.

so because certain people rigged polls in the past this one without a doubt most certainly must have been rigged?
that would explain why there were more votes in favor of not using the pointmod but it doesn't explain the lack of support for using the pointmod

Quote:

the sad part is i thought i'd always made it clear that those polls are worthless to me in deciding league policy. again, if it had been 99% no and 1% yes with me being the 1%, it wouldn't have changed the fact that nobody in the 99% had a fucking clue what they were talking about and were caught lying innumerable times, and it wouldn't change the fact that any of those 99% could set up a pointbugged ladder for themselves if any of them could actually give a shit about the community.

just because someone doesn't up and leave your community and start their own or make a ladder for original point games doesn't mean they don't give a shit about the community
the fact that they're there at all should say something
not everyone has it in them to go off and make their own ladder or league
most people wouldn't even know how either

Quote:

again, do yourself a favour of don't lie, they were the entirety of the opposition. it doesn't matter how many No votes there were, nobody said it did.

it showed that people weren't supporting your choice but you were going with it anyways
the opposition was everyone that didn't support using the pointmod in clanwars, which was apparently everyone aside from you and whiskey
seems douchey but Hey, it's your league, run it how you want to
you seem to know what you're doing
it's just hibernating for now

Quote:

wow, what's with the lying? i went to extraordinary lengths to give everyone the chance to join the "equation", but the equation is a debate, not a vote. you don't change my mind on a rule by saying here are five people who agree with me, you change my mind on a rule by saying here's why the rule is wrong and why this alternative would be right. i gave everyone ample opportunity to do that, they tried, they catastrophically failed. and yet despite their abject failure to convince me that they ought to have a pointbugged ladder, nothing ever stopped them setting their own one up. but no, apparently i've got to do it for him. jesus, listen to what an idiot you're being

just because people didn't post doesn't mean they wouldn't have preferred using the original points to the pointmod in clanwars
i'm listening but i don't hear it
just because they (the majority of cw.cc at that time) could not out-debate you on why they liked the original points over the pointmod and why it should be used doesn't mean you can't use it, especially if it makes them happy
would it be a bad thing if your playerbase was happy with what you were doing? i don't think so but i'm not Spoony

Quote:

not all, probably not even a majority, but it's a higher proportion than i'd like

really? because you make it sound like they're everywhere, climbing in your windows and snatching your people up

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i suppose you're still assuming this vote of yours wasn't rigged like the previous ones were

some polls in the history of cw.cc were rigged - this means that all of them were rigged
correct?

Quote:

and as i've tried to explain to you so many many times, there's no avoiding the conclusion that anyone who wants a pointbugged ladder but isn't hosting one (that includes you and doesn't include me) is far more douchey than you assert me to be. that automatically beats your entire argument.

you have a system that works, and people know that
you are clanwars to them so they come to you
they're douchebags because they don't try to do what you're doing? they disagree with the lack of an original renegade points ladder but are douchebags because they don't host their own? not everyone knows how to go about doing such a thing or is capable of it
i myself have no idea what goes into it
you're trying to say that they're douchebags for asking you to change what you're doing to cater to them
i'm saying you're a douchebag when literally everyone was asking you and you still said no
had someone else done it and it worked it would have been you and whiskey left there because you two wanted the pointmod

Quote:

i've never thought my case here was sufficiently weak that i needed to say i had "majority" on my side, never mind the "majority" of a community as generally dipshitted as clanwars.cc. if you're going to construct a strawman you could at least come up with something i might actually waste my time saying.

i'm guessing as to what you were trying to hint at earlier
you never actually said you had the majority on your side, but you were suggesting that the original-points fans were not the majority
it can only go one way, either one side is or isn't the majority
fuck strawmen, make a snowman instead

Quote:

firstly, again, it was never established that it was the majority at all. secondly, i kept trying to explain how thick the majority can be. thirdly, if you think my feelings will be hurt by you saying i'm the only person in the room who thinks one thing when everyone else thinks the opposite, you haven't been paying much attention to any of my renedebates.

if it were you vs. literally everyone in cw.cc on the issue i think it makes you a douchebag to not do what they would prefer
even if they're all slobbering idiots and have no idea what they're talking about
that or you can tell them to go make their own league, and in the offchance they did yours would sit empty
as it is currently
Free simpee and clearsh0t!!111

Quote:

again, don't use the word "vote" as if there was an election going on or something. there was a debate thread right there for opposition to the pointsfix - if people were too stupid or too cowardly to muster up anything there, don't act like the fault is mine. nobody ever said those anonymous votes are worth a damn at clanwars.cc, and that would be the case even if the anti-pointsfix crowd hadn't already rigging them in the past.

you've decided that because people didn't speak up that they didn't support it
did people speak in defense of the pointmod? the people that spoke up against it were people you condemned as murderers and rapists
and why did you crap on zell, he's a good guy

Quote:

that's odd, i've seen plenty of people on the anti-pointsfix crowd - clearshot, for example - say clanwars would be a lot better without spoony.

history has failed to show that
in clear's opinion maybe you're bad for the league
if clearsh0t were everyone then i'd have to agree with you
though that's not the case

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they don't put it to the test, though.

i don't think clanwars would work now if someone else tried to do them, you're the established person
though i agree, no one has thoroughly tested it

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no, no one can be bothered, and the rare few who do help out as renadmins get treated almost as badly as i do. call it what it is.

it's clanwars
ahahahaha gud 1 me

Quote:

all i wanted was for the league to run smoothly with the players respecting the rules and the admins, so i guess we don't often get what we want. the difference between the two is if any of the anti-pointsfix crowd could give enough of a shit about the community to set up their own ladder, their problem would be solved.

you may be expecting too much in an environment that competitive
but hey, what do i know, i'm no clanwars admin or clanwars player
perhaps them having their own original points ladder would have solved that problem, but i can see it causing more

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yes i am right, yes the polls did brainwash you

sad face
though i don't actually know which polls you're talking about, all i know of is the one
and i covered that above

Quote:

it would be quite serious if it was true, wouldn't it? therefore it's serious when someone seriously asserts it's true, and therefore we shouldn't deal lightly with someone who - in all seriousness - lies through his teeth to make the assertion, with the express purpose of doing what damage he could to (in this hypothetical) the jelly community.

sure
i still don't get it though; what's this the equivalent of? you allowing pointpushing or cheating?
you seemed to have an easy time diffusing it so it's not a big deal in my eyes

Quote:

uh no, he didn't want there to be a choice. there was nothing in the petition about having a choice. he openly opposed my right to use the pointsfix in my own league.

in the petition he was saying he didn't want it to be a choice, but later on he had changed his stance
you asked him how he wanted there to be a choice but wanted the choice to be no in your league
something about picking any color, as long as it's black

Quote:

if you insist, so long as i had a history of cheating, pointpushing and trying to sabotage the jelly servers.

maybe you do, and you're just good at getting away with it

Quote:

i thought i told you to try not to stupid

derp?

liquidv2

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