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Re: BHS Ladder [message #438577 is a reply to message #438576] Fri, 29 October 2010 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 29 October 2010 18:29

you listed several players that openly disagreed via the clanwars forums with your decision to use the pointmod in clanwars
you act as if those players were the only ones that didn't want it used in clanwars; the majority if the league did not want it used, and those players did not make up the majority alone

please don't lie, you're better than that. i listed every single person who expressed their opposition to the correct points system being used at clanwars.cc, and every single one of them - without exception - had a shitty track record in terms of fairplay and honesty. it was a rogue's gallery, remember?

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they didn't trust or stand by me,

yah they did; why do you think they stuck around?

wanting to use my clan ladder on their own terms, without the slightest respect for the person who owns and runs it and wanting to make all the admin decisions themselves without having to do any of the actual work does not constitute "trusting" or "sticking by" me.

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they actively tried to sabotage the league through a campaign of lies, rigged polls and manipulation.

what do you mean sabotage the league?

why have i had to explain this so many times already? i said it over and over and over again at the time it was happening, is it so much to expect that you listen to what the person you're arguing with is saying?

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for example, they went secretly to the clanwars server owners and totally lied about what was going on in the forums at the time to get them to change the server settings.

that's a bitch move, but if the servers were not set to your settings then by default the games would mean nothing

unless the players reported games illegally, as players like simpee and clearshot already had a history of doing...

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sure their settings would be in place, but you could put a dead stop to your ladder until they agree to play by your rules

i'm sure you'd be firmly on their side if i did.

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their opinions were biased and you know that

again, euphemism. they're cheaters and compulsive liars.

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i thought it was douchey of you to go against your playerbase

and yet every single person who wanted a pointbugged ladder is AUTOMATICALLY much more "douchey" than i could ever be, because they can't be bothered hosting.

as for "going against my playerbase", like i kept saying over and over and over again, the majority at clanwars.cc has a sad history of being catastrophically wrong a great deal of the time, so wrong that had their opinions been heeded there've been at least two occasions where it would've led to the complete shutdown of the entire league.

again, i kept pointing this out to you at the time, and you seemed oddly unmoved by it.

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if it makes them happy why not keep it?

if it would make them happy how about one of them pull their fingers out and host one themselves instead of expecting me to accommdate their fucking ridiculous point bugs that they can't even logically explain?

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sure, if they want to lie. i didn't ignore my player base, it's an absurd and desperate lie to say i did. i went to extraordinary lengths to encourage debate on the subject. the "player base" you're talking about, which is another euphemism for a small number of cheaters and rulebreakers and compulsive liars - ignored me.

it's more a poor choice of words than a desperate lie, instead you went against your player base

yes it is a lie and i exposed it repeatedly the first time around. you kept saying i "wasn't listening" to these cheaters and pointpushers and compulsive liars. what a fucking stupid thing to say. one look at the clanwars forum disproves it; i went to extraordinary lengths to listen to these twats. furthermore, listening to them infuriates them. the thing above all that they seemed to despise about me was the fact i would always read what they said and replied to it, a courtesy i very rarely got in return.

don't say "listened to" when you mean "obeyed". and don't say "playerbase" when you mean "a small number of cheaters"

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the majority of your league at the time was cheaters, rulebreakers, and compulsive liars?

no (though the proportion is depressingly high), but every person on the field at the time you're talking about was.

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and i already addressed that, because these cheaters, rulebreakers, and compulsive liars you listed at the time were not the only people against using the pointmod in clanwars

they were the only people publicly arguing against it in the debate thread that existed for that specific purpose.

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ah, i see the problem. you think i should make decisions that please people who don't want the game to be fair. well, as long as we disagree on that we won't agree on much else either.

if that's the majority of your league then why not?

if that was the majority of the league i would've closed it a very long time ago.

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do you host the league to satisfy yourself?

would that be any kind of criticism if that were true? it's better than hosting it to satisfy the cheaters and pointpushers and compulsive liars you were so robustly defending

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who said i supported the way they went about it? i never said i supported them rigging polls or lying to server owners to get the servers changed without your permission

and in the dozens and dozens of posts and PMs you put forth on the subject, the one and only opinion you could bring yourself to express was the "you should listen to your playerbase" (or, as we've established, "you should obey these cheaters")

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i disagree; i told you you had every right to do it
multiple times i might add

yes, you said that, but i don't think you understood either of its two implications. firstly that someone like e.g. simpee has absolutely nothing other than thanks owed to me, secondly the only kind of person who should be criticised for failing to host a pointbugged ladder is someone who wants one but can't be bothered hosting it (a long list of names which does not include Spoony)

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i said i was confused as to why you didn't side with the majority of your league

i know you were confused no matter how many times i explained it to you. firstly the majority at clanwars has a track record of bollock-brained stupidity, before we even get into the dishonesty. secondly clanwars decisions were being made by the appointed admins long before i had any power there. thirdly... i'll get to that in my next statement

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it's unfortunate that the small number of cheaters, pointpushers, and compulsive liars were a part of that majority of your league, but that's just the way it is

thirdly, it was never established that the "majority" was against the pointsfix at all. remember? i listed every single person who argued against the pointsfix in the debate thread that was there for the purpose. every single name. it was something like 6 or 7.

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they posted a huge list of accusations against me, most of which would be worse than cheating if they were true - and every one of which they were knowingly lying about. why do you say "they said spoony was stubborn"?

did you ask them to make a list? lol

i think clearshot took it upon himself to rattle off a list of reasons why nobody should use the TT ladder, since spoony was the admin and we all know how many times he's used his admin powers to pointpush etc

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and you should have been thrilled that they made a big list openly like that, it allowed you to publically clear up grievances and accusations

it allowed me to expose simpee and clearshot for the compulsive-lying cheating little bitches that i've known they are for some time.

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they could have been lying compulsively but what if their accusations were things they truly believe?

then they would have withdrawn their accusations at the point at which i debunked them. but it's a bit ironic that you're thinking of granting them the presumption of innocence, given that you've spent several years under a delusion that they intentionally created with all the lies and rigged polls they set up.

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what attempt? you're exaggerating in an obesely disgusting manner
they said in their own words Fuck the TT ladder, it's stupid, forget about it
you're acting like they led rallies and marched to the EA headquarters with anti-spoony t-shirt and Fuck TT signs

what would the jelly staff do if it turned out you had been cheating for years up to and including the present day?

as to the marching on EA, the only person who did that was roni, but it turned out he didn't think an individual community should be able to decide for itself whether to use the pointsfix or not either.

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i don't get why you're shouting, i guess simpee and clear must make you really mad
maybe that's why you banned them!

try not to be stupid

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you mean to tell me they made a post saying Fuck Spoony and his clanwars ladder that was similar to their post about the TT ladder post? this is an outrage
what else did they do to sabotage the clanwars ladder? lie to clanwars server owners in an attempt to get it changed?

that alone would have been enough; it would have been like me hacking into the jelly box to install the pointsfix. what would you have done had i done so?

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perhaps they're just very confused individuals and weren't intentionally lying to them, but were instead telling them what they believed to be true

do you think that was also the case in all the other times they were caught lying about stuff?

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[Updated on: Fri, 29 October 2010 17:23]

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