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Re: Catholic adoption agencies and homosexuality [message #427546 is a reply to message #427451]

Tue, 04 May 2010 20:26

Altzan
Messages: 1586
Registered: September 2008
Location: Tennessee

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General (1 Star)

NukeIt15 wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 00:19

Altzan

God didn't create himself, he was never created. He is eternal, while the universe is not.
Genesis doesn't open with God "creating himself", it opens with him creating Earth.

That really depends on the translation; I know that some of them begin with God's self-creation... however, I'm not going to push this one any further. The only copy of the Bible I've got on hand shares your version of the text, so I find myself without a reference to back up my words with. I seem to have suffered an acute case of "failed to find evidence before opening big mouth." My apologies. Smile

Yeah, there are a lot of translations... I'd like to think that King James Version is the one most true to the original translation.
No need to apologize, by the way. Razz

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

this implies that the only way an action could be worthwhile is if there is an afterlife, and the only concept of 'worthwhile' is to your own benefit.

The bold is where you lost me on that one.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

question. let's say there isn't an afterlife. if someone found a cure for cancer, would that be worthwhile? would this person's action have been for nothing?

Timeframe is the key. For the time following his discovery, it would be worthwhile. It would ease suffering and death for many people.
Zoom ahead to when Earth and its inhabitants no longer exist... doesn't seem so worthwhile now.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

another question. let's say there is an afterlife, and that the christian guess at it is correct. and let's say the scientist was not a christian. do you think he's still going to hell?

Not enough detail to answer that, all you've said is one thing he/she did.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

i don't give a shit whether you believe it. i thought i had made that clear. the only reason i am criticising religion is because it's trying to take over the world.

That's interesting, seeing as how I'm not a part of that movement in any regard...

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

almost no atheists say that they know there isn't a god. they generally say nobody's come up with any decent evidence, or even a convincing line of argument, that there is one.

That's not atheism, that's skepticism.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

Quote:

2) Normally, I'd agree on that algebraic view... but not until you can explain how there can be something that isn't X or Y... mind or matter.

i've got a better idea, how about you prove to me that there has ever been a mind that did not have matter to it?

That's only a better idea because now I'm the one answering and not you, eh?

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

Quote:

Logically, it is a statement. It is either true or false. I asked you which you think it is. If you refuse to answer and give no reason other than "I don't accept that this is a yes-no question" then you are indeed evading it.

When did I refuse to answer? I said I wouldn't have phrased it like that.

Well, if you hesitate to throw your opinion to either choice, then rephrase it to how you think it is, don't avoid it altogether.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

given the cruel and merciless depiction of god in the bible, why would the amount of evil in the world suggest that he ISN'T still around? i've never understood people who say: there can't be a god because of how fucked up the world is. they must be reading a different bible to the one i read.

Given how many Biblical quotes you've provided, you should have a pretty decent idea of what "sets God off", so to speak... and you've seen examples of what he does in response, in the OT... so, why isn't he responding much the same today?

because it's fiction Sarcasm

Congrats on your excellent dodge attempt.
If you think it's fiction, you wouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
Only when it's convenient for you, I see...

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

Quote:

Spoony wrote on Fri, 30 April 2010 06:29

quite a lot. you say god isn't intervening in the modern world? i would think that subjecting humans to the worst punishment imaginable if they don't believe in him or disagree with his religion counts as intervening.

I don't see how an act of the afterlife counts as "modern-time".

Oh, really?
So God is doing absolutely nothing about the murderers etc in the world, then?

Elaborate on that, please. I don't quite understand what you're asking.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

I can give you better alternatives to most parts of Christianity.
The rape rule, for example. I think a better alternative is to lock the rapist up and offer some kind of counseling to the victim if she needs it. Either way she shouldn't ever have to look at him again.
The doctrine of forgiveness, the idea that your sins can be forgiven if you believe something (seriously, what the fuck? how can something so ridiculous be so widespread?). Better alternative. You do something wrong? Apologise to the people you affected, do what you can to rectify the situation, and resolve to behave better next time.
Any other alternatives you want?

This is still tearing at my boat, so to speak... as if you were giving your opinion on how you would have built it.
Doesn't help much.

Spoony wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 09:00

Quote:

God didn't create himself, he was never created. He is eternal

How do you know that?

I never said I 'knew' it. Belief, remember?
I believe the Bible, and the Bible says God was already there 'in the Beginnning'.