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Re: Catholic adoption agencies and homosexuality [message #423791 is a reply to message #422616] Fri, 26 March 2010 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Altzan is currently offline  Altzan
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Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

it's actually very straightforward.

the baying religious mob bring a woman who they've caught committing adultery before jesus, and say we need to stone her to death.

jesus says: let he without sin cast the first stone. everyone there is sinful (indeed christianity says we're all sinful), so nobody can stone her, and she gets away with it. so that means we can't have and enforce any laws at all, because the only people allowed to punish offenders would have to be entirely sinless, and none of us are, are we?


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

"This is another counterfeiting of the Scriptures many have tried to use to shame us for what we do in his name. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is not speaking to judging. Let me explain.

Using the KJV this time, in John 8:1 - 11 scribes and Pharisees had caught a woman in the act of adultery (the woman commonly referred to as the prostitute) and told Jesus who was teaching in the temple that the Mosaic Law required she be stoned to death. Trying to make an opportunity of this to trick Jesus that they might accuse Him, they, with stones in hand, asked Jesus what He says about the Law. After Jesus tried to ignore their repeated questioning, He told them "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." One by one each man dropped his stone and walked away.

Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman's guilt. Jesus was arguing with our right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered "No man, Lord", Jesus told her that neither did He - He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All behavior and thought that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her "Go and sin no more."

The point? Jesus did not argue the act of judging the chosen behavior of the adulteress/prostitute."

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

it's not exactly much of a jump to get from "all jews are responsible of the murder of our god" to actually doing something nasty to jews, is it?


God didn't say it, one man did. One man said that all Jews should be responsible. That doesn't translate to a Biblical command.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

What about it? My question was: where's the evidence supporting the account given in Genesis? So how does this support the account given in Genesis?


I wasn't providing evidence supporting Genesis, I was asking in terms of evolution.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

i can't match verses to numbers off the top of my head, but i would have thought an avowed christian would at least have read the bible through.


How does that make sense? Yes, I study the Bible, but I don't know all of its contents. It would take years to effectively read and study every Bible verse.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

for starters, you could ask god to make his "revelation" a little less ridiculous, or you could ask god not to be such a bastard that he feels the need to dish out the worst crime imaginable just for the "crime" of disbelieving in his existence or disagreeing with his religion.


There are plenty of people who think the revelation was just fine, and don't see how his commandments are ridiculous. So, why should your opinion be any more important than theirs?

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

Quote:

Apparently you do... If you're going to say that they were spreading lies about condoms, it would be a good idea to know the intention behind the act, right?

i'm more concerned with the fact millions of people are dying.


So you only care for the act and not the motive? Isn't that an ignorant viewpoint?

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

how do you even know they said that?

once you've answered that, how do you know they were correct, as opposed to crazy or lying or just plain wrong?
once you've answered that, how do you know this wasn't the case for the rejected gospels?


1. They said it in the gospels they wrote.
2. I don't "know" that, but as you said, odds - if that many people (the writers) all claimed the same thing, they either are telling the truth or a coordinated lie.
3. I don't, since I haven't read said gospels.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

it wouldn't be the first time i've made the assertion that it's plain evil to threaten someone with horrific punishment just for the "crime" of disagreeing with you or doubting what you say, would it?


No, it wouldn't be. It's your motto, I guess.
By that logic, though, you shouldn't punish a child molester because he doesn't agree with the anti-pedophilia law.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

Quote:

You're changing the subject to avoid my original point, even changing my words. Is that the best argument you have?

you'd better back this up.


I'm referencing to actions made by the people in the Old Testament, and you keep turning it around to "Look what GOD did!"
And it wasn't "complaining about your religion" as you quoted me.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

if there was a "higher power", i would not think that this justified a dictatorship over us. i'd still be in favour of democracy, human rights, stuff like that.


I'm in favor of democracy and human rights among humans.
I'm suprised that you think that a people completely created by another being by his will alone should have exact and equal rights as that being and should be left to their own devices and be allowed to shun their creator.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

so your denomination are the "real" christians, right? (they all say that, but never mind that for now).


Depends on what you mean by that... we believe what the Bible says, and we don't associate us with those who would change it.

Spoony wrote on Wed, 24 March 2010 04:14

isn't god a bit of a prick for making his message so ludicrously cryptic that only a small proportion of the population get it right, and punishing everyone who gets it wrong?


Is it really that hard to "decrypt"? The Bible is large and full of complex verses, yes. But the very basic instruction left for us today is very simple, the five-step process. Follow that and you're set.
It also is pretty simple to understand what God says is a sin and what is not.

I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire

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