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Re: Catholic adoption agencies and homosexuality [message #422643 is a reply to message #422642] Wed, 17 March 2010 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Clark Kent wrote on Wed, 17 March 2010 16:02

Yes, some churches of many different beliefs have been openly accepting homosexuals with the idea we are all God's children or whatever else about forgiveness and not judging... Some say that The Bible is not actually against homosexuality.

the bible is rabidly homophobic, particularly the old testament. but it's also a pretty shitty moral guide in a lot of other areas too.

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No, some people feel very strongly that marriage should only be between a man and a woman

ah, marriage.

firstly, the idea that marriage is between a man and a woman is actually quite recent. for a lot of history, it was more along the lines of one man and several women. indeed, this is mentioned in the bible, as well as in islamic tradition (the prophet mohammed had several wives, his favourite of whom - aisha - he married when she was six)

we did generally evolve past that thinking into the more recent idea of marriage being one man and one woman. but here's something that only became widespread VERY recently: the idea that marriage can be about love.

traditionally, marriage was always about wealth and power. form a bond with the right family, to protect your land and your money. the idea of marriage being about love is very new, and yet i think most people would agree that it's a good thing that we generally think of marriage this way now, just as they would probably agree that getting rid of polygamy is probably an improvement too.

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and the whole idea of what is "natural"...

homosexuality is perfectly natural. it isn't a choice, some people simply are homosexual. it also occurs in other species. and yet another thing that must be challenged is the idea that "natural" is automatically a synonym for "desirable". rape, for example, is very common in nature, very common indeed. most of us condemn rape, even though the bible does not.

and if you instead believe that we're created by god, then perhaps you can explain why god would create so many people homosexual, if he disapproves of the lifestyle and has inspired his followers to rail against it for two thousand years, resulting in a really miserable time for the people he created. what a prick.

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Of course we all know that a man and a man can not reproduce and the same for a woman and a woman, but that is not much of an arguement to most people, while with others that is proof enough.

if you ever come across someone who thinks a particular human right ought to be denied to a homosexual person on the grounds that they can't reproduce, then i will be the first to stand up and say that i don't want kids. i just don't, it's a personal choice and i've never hid it from anybody. shall i be denied the same human right in question? if so, will it also be denied people who for one reason or another are infertile?

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I am sure most of you have heard the saying, "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve"...

sure, but it's complete crap.

firstly, there's no evidence at all to suggest that the adam and eve story is even slightly accurate.

secondly, even if it was, even if it was proven that a god did create us and has stern ideas about how we should behave, i'll still be in favour of democracy instead.

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Going along with the "no" response is a thought about forgiveness that someone said to me a while back.

If you view something as a sin (E.g excessive driking, gambling, fornication), but you slip up and do it anyways, are you forgiven?

how do you define "sin"? i generally hear that the word means something that offends a god. well, then...
- firstly it's a completely meaningless statement until you've proven that -a- the god exists at all, and -b- he does indeed disapprove of the action you're talking about.
- secondly, like i said, even if you proved -a- and -b-, i'll still be in favour of democracy over theocracy.

on the question of forgiveness, your question seems rather incomplete to me. what did you do, who was affected by it, what did you do to attempt to rectify the situation, and who do you think is the party to do the forgiving?

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Well the general idea is we are not perfect so we make mistakes, it just depends on how you feel afterwards, and if you just plan on doing it again the next day...

you tell me.

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Excessive drinking, gambling, and fornication are pretty common "sins" that most everyone will experience at least once in their life.

see above re: definition of "sin". what is your argument against these three, just so i can be clear?

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But if you get in a habbit of doing these things consistently there are support groups and programs that are supposed to help you.

sure.

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You may also have a homosexual experience once in your life, but to call it a "problem" or have support groups for this would make a lot of people very upset to say the least.

and if the homosexual experience was with a consenting adult, why would it be a problem and why would a support group be necessary?

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If you are a homosexual and you plan on continuing that life style, but you view it as a "sin" yourself, I would not expect you to ask for forgiveness.

I, personally, would expect the Christian churches to ask for forgiveness for spending the last two thousand years brainwashing us that homosexuality is indeed a sin, as well as quite a lot of other things.

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I hope I didn't say anything offensive, I was trying to be delicate but it is hard for me to tell sometimes what may or may not upset some people's feelings.

Just talk straight would be my advice, and don't dodge questions.

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[Updated on: Wed, 17 March 2010 15:36]

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