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Re: Ideas to help newcomers/people joining a server mid-game [message #406060 is a reply to message #405811] Wed, 07 October 2009 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
GEORGE ZIMMER is currently offline  GEORGE ZIMMER
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Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56


I haven't played TF2 to any large degree, but in a srs bizns game if one team used medics and the other did not, then the team that used medics would hypothetically win, regardless of points involved. If they didn't, then the medic isn't that useful and it's something you can get away with.

Naturally, that's a given. But why not reward the medics? There's no real reason to not reward them... if anything there's reason TO reward them. Yes, they can still win regardless of points, but people are less inclined to be engineers in Renegade because of the whole points/money deal, atleast in public servers.

Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56

If an airstrip goes down, a new player who has just joined the game would not be able to buy vechs. If a barracks blows up, new GDI players won't have access to higher-level infantry. Why should the refinery be any different?


Because if the Refinery goes down, you're locked off from nearly EVERYTHING without arduous amounts of point/money whoring. Credits affect more than just one thing. Barracks and war factory are self contained if they're lost. If the refinery is lost, you're pretty badly fucked unless you've got a nice teamate who will donate to you. But for one, that doesn't even happen that much anyway, and two, I'd like to see a more natural way of getting money than simply donating if your ref is dead. Again, the other team can still do this too, so it's not suddenly shifting the focus to the losing team. They're just not AS badly superassfucked as they would be.

Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56

I would argue that they're getting exactly what they deserve. They lost a building. This entails some sort of punishment. Yes, it's harder to win. That's the price of losing a building. That's what gives incentive for the opposing team to kill buildings.

And again, they do still lose a good bit. I'm fine with every building being lost except the refinery (as in, they all usually punish you a fair amount except the ref), because it's difficult to get decent money if you lose the refinery... which makes it very difficult to get anything else. I don't mind it being difficult, just not as difficult as it is now. Simply increasing the ability to get money with free units (Engineers come to mind the most) would remedy this problem.

Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56

You do have a fighting chance. Grab an engineer and repair that last medium tank or arty alive on your team. Sneak up behind those snipers and shotgun them to death. Repair a building that's under attack until you can afford a Gunner or something. All this is possible in the current confines of your standard pointfix'd server. What else do you want?

Yes, it's possible, but it takes way too damn long to get decent money. By then that last tank might be dead, that sniper would have probably caught on to you and fuck you up any time you try it again, and repairing that last building barely gives you decent credits. Once more, a good lot of this would be remedied by simply allowing repairs to increase the amount of money/points you can gain than usual.

Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56

They do feature mechanics which fill a similar role. In fact, they're a ton stronger than any engineer or technician in Renegade could ever hope to be.

True, forgot about those, but tank fights still end up being very different than Renegade's. APB is more of a siege game, wheras Renegade ends up being a field game. So having large field based standoffs that last for awhile hardly happen to the degree they do in Renegade. Plus, mechanics moreso balance the fact that Allies' tanks are weaker than Soviets, giving them a bit of a fighting chance (assuming you're stuck in an area where there's not much room to move).


Dover wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 17:56

I don't argue that there are gameplay difference, but they aren't so vast as to invalidate similarities between them. In both games you buy a tank and go blow up your opponent's shit while preventing him from doing the same to you. I would say Renegade has a lot more in common with APB than it does with TF2, yet that analogy still stands, right?

While that may be true, the way engineers work are still vastly different. Especially since both teams get them.

Also, the TF2 analogy was put out because of the simple idea that support roles should get credit where credit is due. That's moreso what I was getting at. Essentially, engineers are what Medics are in TF2. Engineers in APB, again, serve a different function. Yes, support roles are there, but again, I rarely see THAT many people filling the support role. I could go into an argument saying that APB should reward supporting roles much more, but that's for another time I guess. Plus, I haven't played APB that in depth in awhile, so who knows, your analogy could stand some more ground than I think.

Also, Spoony (Sorry to not respond to each and every post individually, but this does sum up most of what I'd say anyways), while I do understand you should still use engineers/techs/hotwires regardless of personal score, why NOT allow them to get more points and money than they currently do? I can't see it really somehow destroying Renegade's balance. Sure, gameplay might change a little, but for the most part, it'll still remain the same. Just that engineers will be a bit higher up on the ladder than some douche who thinks he can sneak into the enemy base as a lone SBH.

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