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Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #405628 is a reply to message #405603] Tue, 06 October 2009 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58

You did! "who could have abused this situation FAR MORE." Imo that means that he did

Surth understands my point. I don't NEED to say he abused it. My point stands whether he abused it or not.

tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58

The fact that the pointmod did empty j1 is still a valid reason against the pointmod. Do you really think i shouldnt defend my "home" against a modification wich kills "my home"?

Sure it's enough for you to choose to use the pointsbug in your server. But when the same community has a stranglehold on the game listings, there's a problem.

tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58

this all was changes wich made the game better for the players.

And so it's not really about what the "original" game was like, so you've defeated your own argument.

tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58

no. I`m a jelly community member for ages, and so my "heart beats for the jelly-community".

Ah. So when you said you were pro-community, what you meant was the wishes of the Jelly community, valid or not, trump everyone else's?

simpee wrote

hahaha spoonys not happy because someone else has more renepower than him. jelly can keep his server names, and u can keep ur -50% on ur ladder to even the scale.

That doesn't even the scale. My ladder isn't a monopoly over Renegade. Anyone else can make a ladder, it's not my fault nobody else can be bothered. That's not the same as a monopoly. Don't equate the two.

Jelly wrote

It's yet another tool people will try to use against me.
I can't be arsed with some e-drama. All I will say is you can fuck off. I thought you knew me a little better than to go about things this way.

I aint getting into some debate, it's pointless and been recycled more than I can remember.

Good luck with your crusade against me.

Go about things what way? Disagree with your monopoly? If you can disagree with the perceived notion that I want to force the pointsfix on your server (which is untrue), then I can disagree with your monopoly on the game listings. This is not a crusade against you.

Anyway, we now have our answer, and we can now make another comparison between TT and jelly.

question 1: how did TT respond to people disagreeing with the pointsfix?
answer: TT went to INCREDIBLE lengths to engage them in debate, find out what they thought and why. made an extraordinary
effort to post all the arguments and evidence for the pointsfix (none of which have been refuted), and comported themselves
with infinitely more civility than the people arguing against them.
suggested several compromises between the two positions, all of which were violently rejected by the anti-pointsfix crowd.
eventually said: ok, we'll give you everything you want (well, not quite everything; they also wanted the ability to say
"spoony should not be allowed to choose whether to use the pointsfix in his own community", but any fool can see that's
asking too much... sadly a great many people on the anti-pointsfix crowd don't seem to be on the intellectual level of a
fool)
and of course, TT and I still get the shit flamed out of us at every turn, despite giving these kiddies everything they
wanted (which is exactly, EXACTLY what i predicted would happen)

question 2: how did the jelly community respond to people disagreeing with their undeserved monopoly on the game listings?
answer: "All I will say is you can fuck off."

if anybody says the situation should not change, you're basically saying jelly is better qualified to control the game
listings than TT... and given the difference between TT and Jelly here, I just don't see how anybody can seriously think that.

the strongest argument in support of jelly's monopoly has been posted by tellsson.
tellsson wrote

Anybody could have gotten there first.
So what is unfair about that jelly was faster then all others??
Imagine that: a race. Some1 wins and earns the prize. What is unfair about that?

tellsson wrote on Tue, 06 October 2009 09:58

nice hypotheses, but still, fact is: JELLY WAS FASTER.

here's what this means.
let's reduce TT to jelly's level and say: imagine TT has the patch authority because crimson "got there first" (which is
of course untrue, but let's make the situations equal).
let's say TT did decide: pointsfix is compulsory, and we will make it so there is no way to reverse this.

TT can simply say: "TT does deserve this authority because we got there first, case closed. get used to it." or, to borrow Jelly's words, "All I will say is you can fuck off."

so, jelly community, which way do you want to have it? there are two options. the red pill and the blue pill.
1. jelly keeps its monopoly on the game lists. if so, TT can if they choose just say: "pointsfix for everybody, nothing you can do about it"... in other words, acting the same way jelly is.
2. if you try to argue that TT shouldn't say that (and you have), you can't keep your monopoly on the game lists.
give the a00 names to TT.

pick one.

and this works even when you reduce TT's claim to authority to the level of jelly's, "we got there first". TT's claim is
of course much stronger than that.
and, TT has gone to incredible lengths to deal with people who disagree, no matter how pathetically they try to advance
their case. jelly has not budged an inch on this, ever. how about the anti-pointsfix crowd be reasonable, for the very
first time? you've never done it before, but you might find it actually works.

so, jelly community, perhaps you'd like to try to put forth a better argument, because if you can't do better than this,
it's clear the a00 situation can - and should - be rectified. immediately. don't worry, you'll keep one a00 name (even
though you've had the chokehold long enough that you hardly still need one). we'll even say you can keep the top one, eh?


Unleash the Renerageâ„¢

Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful

[Updated on: Tue, 06 October 2009 10:38]

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