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Re: Ideas to help newcomers/people joining a serv mid-game [message #404733 is a reply to message #404717] Thu, 01 October 2009 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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my advice for players is actually not gonna be aimed at the new players. it's gonna be aimed at the old players, because they need it more. much, much, much more.

it's really simple, but people have been taught so many bad habits by the pointsbug and they don't seem able to shake them off.

two points need to be made here.
1. how to earn points (and in the process, credits)
three standard ways to do this. damage the enemy, repair damaged allies, and disarm c4/beacons. all of these give a specified amount of points, and money.
- for killing vehicles/infantry, you get 10% of their cost (so, 80 for a med, 35 for a tech, etc)... half of this for damaging it to near-death, the other half at the actual kill.
- for killing a building, 750. more if it's being teched (same applies to vehicles and infantry)
- for repairing allied things it's half what the enemy gets for attacking it
- 30 for defusing c4, 300 for disarming beacons
there's one other way that was introduced by the pointsbug: shoot stuff you don't damage. this is the odd one out in the sense that it wasn't supposed to happen, AND the odd one out in the sense that it takes zero skill or teamwork, AND the odd one out in the sense that it does nothing to help your team's immediate situation. and yet it's the first choice of many people who consider themselves "good players", which, in my view, undermines their claim to be anywhere decent at this game.
in the case of getting MONEY - not points - there are additional things you can do. protect your refinery and your harvester, and get boxes. again, these take a measure of skill and co-ordination, and again, these were supposed to happen. now, if more people weren't wasting their time shooting stuff they don't damage, if they actually did something immediately helpful, their refineries and harvesters would probably not die so often and they wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

2. common sense
there's one objection that crops up again and again to the pointsfix. and this is one of those times where you need to really read what they're saying.
people say: if you're being sieged, the only way to get money and points is by shooting heavy tanks with an auto rifle.

these people saying this have been playing renegade for years... but to read their posts, you wouldn't think so.
let us consider specific scenarios. in these, we are assuming you currently can't afford anything, and we'll talk about what you can do in each situation.
consider there are med/light tanks pummelling your base.
here's what you can do. fix the building they're pummelling. tech any of your teammates who are trying to fight off the tanks. try actually attacking the tanks yourself, with a grenadier/flamethrower or an engi. go kill the hotwires/techs that are supporting the tanks. or, try getting money DESPITE the tanks - go sneak, go grenade, go kill the harvester, go get a box.
with the exception of getting a box, all of these potentially help your team's immediate situation. with the exception of fixing a building, all of these require some measure of skill and/or teamwork. it simply doesn't occur to some people that you can do any of these, including many people who clearly consider themselves "good players". instead they're under the delusion that ALL you can do is shoot the enemy tanks with a weapon that doesn't make a dent. (it's hard not to laugh at this, it really is. i don't know how many people with this COLOSSAL blind spot can seriously think of themselves as "hot shit", but the overwhelming majority of them do)

so here's the main point.
if someone's first instinct upon their base being threatened by a tank is to shoot the tank without damaging it, they're NOT a good player. i would go so far as to call them a dumbass. there is always something HELPFUL you can be doing. always. and a good player will do that instead.
another example, an APC in your base. this is different in only one sense: your buildings aren't being pummelled continuously, so you may not have the option of repairing your building for money. yet the other options are still there, AND it is more likely that you can actually help kill the APC by trying to remote it, or at least making it fall back a little to avoid you.
now, if there is even the slightest risk, the SLIGHTEST risk of one of your buildings dying (or if the APC is hindering your airstrip), it ought to be your very top priority to do everything you can to prevent it RIGHT NOW. forget about money for a moment. a good player would run from building to building to help ensure their survival, or rush the APC again and again with an engi to remote it or push it back, racking up ten deaths in the process.
again, if a player's first instinct is to disregard the immediate threat to their base and instead shoot the APC ineffectually, i put it to you they're a damn idiot. if someone puts their own credits/points ahead of their base's welfare, it renders laughable their claim to be a good player. these people ought to be in a special server where you have 9999 credits at all times, where losing your WF doesn't prevent you buying vehicles, where losing your barracks doesn't prevent you buying special infantry, and where losing your obelisk doesn't stop it protecting your base. put all these idiots in this cotton-wool padded server, please, where they'll be happy because they can't lose and they can't run out of money no matter WHAT happens... and keep them out of the strategic servers, so my teammates will be better players than this.

so here's my advice to help the OLD players (who, in my view, need advice much more desperately than the newbies): break your own bad habits. if your base is threatened by heavy tanks, put your credits aside for a moment and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. even with a free infantry, you CAN help. and if your base isn't immediately threatened, what's the urgency?

still, if after digesting what i've said there are STILL players who aren't good enough to manage their economy successfully (and generally, people who consider themselves "hot shit" tend to fail miserably in this regard), there's gotta be a better way of increasing overall income than the pointsbug. an invisible, unkillable silo would be better, continually giving everybody 1 credit a second - whether or not the refinery was alive. this way it'd work for everybody, and it would TRULY benefit new players - players who haven't yet figured out the ridiculous bug with heavy armour vehicles. but then, i wonder if this is what the "old-school" players who hate the pointsfix really want? they'd lose their ability to be condescending to new players, and that's clearly important to a lot of them. they'd lose some of their ability to strut around like they're actually good at this game, since the pointsfix strips away these false apprehensions and shows you how much you're ACTUALLY doing (which is precisely why so many people hate it... Sarcasm )
it would ALSO mean you'd be free to do something useful when your base is being stomped... although any good player ought to be doing something useful anyway.

but, all of the above answers a better question than the one that was posed. the question was: how to help people who joined mid-game. the quick answer is: tell 'em to join at the start of the game. you may as well ask: "if someone joined after their WF was dead, how can we help these people buy vehicles?"

in a nutshell, get this into your head, people.
Quote:

now, if more people weren't wasting their time shooting stuff they don't damage, if they actually did something immediately helpful, their refineries and harvesters would probably not die so often and they wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

^^ if you're the kind of player who spends a lot of time shooting heavy tanks with a soldier or a ramjet... then every time your team loses a building, it's your fault. you could have done something to prevent it. and if you and your teammates run out of money because your refinery (and even your harvester) gets killed, again, it's your fault. it's not the pointsfix's fault, it's yours.

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[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 04:19]

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