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Re: Question for Christians [message #390414 is a reply to message #390399]

Fri, 12 June 2009 23:41

Spoony
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Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

The pity is irrelevant. You don't care what I think about you, I don't care what you think about me. It changes nothing.

If someone said I didn't know right from wrong, said I was evil... I would probably try to refute that. I say you don't know right from wrong based on the fact you can't see anything morally wrong with threatening someone with horrific punishments for the 'crime' of disagreeing with you. In your place I would certainly challenge that statement.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

Spoony wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:31

We're back in "the gun I'm threatening you with isn't loaded" territory.

Only if you believe there isn't a gun.

Really?

So I'll be spared hell for the crime of not being a Christian because I don't think hell exists? I don't think hell exists so I won't be going there?

It'd be nice if this was true, but it would directly contradict what Christianity have been threatening people like me with for nearly two thousand years, and still do.

It doesn't really improve your case to say: "ok, we've been threatening you with this appalling punishment for your non-crime... but we're not evil for doing this BECAUSE WE WERE LYING! HAH!"

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

Spoony wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:31

Right... so every time a fossil is found which is older than, say, 10000 years old... (we find these all the time)... it's fake, is it?

Every time geological, archaelogical or astronomical studies show the earth to be very much older than 10000 years old is fake, is it?

The fossils, no. The ridiculous dates? Yes.

Here's a question for you. Read Genesis, the account of the creation of life. (Admittedly there are two and they do contradict each other somewhat, but either of these discrepant accounts will serve the purpose of my question).

There are three types of animal which appear absolutely nowhere.
- Dinosaurs
- Microscopic organisms (Bacteria etc)
- Australian marsupials (kangaroos and whatnot)

There is also a staggeringly simple explanation for why these are conspicuously not mentioned. Unfortunately it's very damaging to the bible's credibility. See if you can work out the reason why they're not mentioned.

I'll give you a clue: it's even more important when you notice the number of times the bible says god inflicted a plague on somebody.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

As if you care for the answers other than to ask for prove or debunk them.

Isn't that reason enough?

I want to understand the world, the universe, and ourselves. If religion has anything helpful to say, I'd like to hear it. So far, it hasn't. It seems painfully obvious that the bible was not dictated by some kind of superbeing; it was written by humans. At the time, their understanding of the world and the cosmos and the human race was pitifully limited. Some of the claims made in the bible are so ludicrous that I do need something to back them up. Earlier in this thread you said this makes me a 'hopeless case', yet when someone actually DOES prove something like the age of the earth, you seem to dismiss it without even giving it due consideration.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

Who: Many people. Paul, Matthew, John, etc.

Don't "etc" me. Complete list of everyone who wrote it, please, and who they were. This is hardly an unreasonable request.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

When: Timespan of 2000-400 years ago.

Pretty vague...

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

How: Through God. (I can already hear snorts of derision here.)

Good, then you must have some conception of what a ridiculous assertion this is.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

I imagine they did witness the events.

So you don't know; they could've lied to you.

Altzan wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:51

Spoony wrote on Fri, 12 June 2009 22:31

Finally, I'd still like to know how you define "repented". How did you "repent" of these things which, by your own statements, would've sent you to hell?

If it's a private sin, a repentance through prayer.
If public, a repentance made in Church.
And of course, it has to be sincere, not hollow words.

This is what I expected, which only reaffirms my earlier statement that you really don't know right from wrong. You say nothing of actually apologising to people you wronged, nor of trying to make amends for a situation you affected. No, never mind that - you just try to please your imaginary friend.

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