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Re: Question for Christians [message #388208 is a reply to message #388063] Wed, 27 May 2009 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Starbuzzz
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I thought I could ignore this thread but...

Altzan wrote on Tue, 26 May 2009 20:54

If you firmly will not believe something unless there's proof and logic to back it up, you're a hopeless case.


Most definitely not when it comes to religion.

With all due respect, the fact of the matter is that a thousand religions came before yours. The God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam came into existence ONLY because of thousands of years of religious consolidation of ideologies in which the concept of polytheism grinded down into monotheism. We still have polytheism left over in a select few areas of the world while monotheistic religions today prominently fall into the category of major religions.

So how can ANY of the major religions impose their TRUTH (or their flavored versions) when they themselves owe their existence to dead pagan religions?

Once you sincerely realize that very important truth, you will see 100% of the credibility of your religion gone. But you probably still got some more steam left:

-fear of hell
-faith (either in desperation or a "my religion is still right!" tone)

Let me point out to you one very important thing and I challenge you to answer it. Where do you think the souls of the non-Christian humans go after they die? It's a very fair question to ask. I would really like to know where the souls of those who worshipped Ra, Zeus, Athena, and Buddah went. They can't possibly be in the Christian hell with them having never heard of it.

As far as faith goes, it is nothing but the one-word stunner to make one console themselves (or make themselves comfortable in times of adversity) to be correct while in fact they are usually dead wrong. Faith amounts to nothing...absolutely nothing but a form of self-conviction that a certain view is correct no matter how many times it has been proved wrong.

I left Christianity when I discovered that it is indeed full of violence and that I have been lied to all these years by ministers and my parents.

As Spoony pointed out earlier, God forbids not to kill yet he wiped out most humans in a massive flood. He then makes a covenant in which he regrets his actions and promises never to use water to kill again (creates the rainbow as well in the process). And over and over again he uses men like Joshua and King Saul to invade enemy cities and kill "every man, woman, child, and cattle." In fact, he punishes King Saul for sparing the livestock of one of the cities he wanted destroyed.

^ When the dumbfuck in me realized that, I quit Christianity FOR GOOD. I REFUSE to worship such a god who I was fooled into thinking was actually merciful.

For over 2000 years the Church and it's ministers have conveniently ignored the bloodythirstiness and the violence of the Christian religion. Ask anyone on the morning train to work and they will all say how Christianity is the peaceful one of all the three major religions! Once you see through this veil and inform yourself, you will see how absolutely disgusting it is. But I doubt you will be disgusted just yet as you still think that Jesus dying on a cross painfully was well worth it, right?

I will refer back to what Spoony posted earlier:

Spoony wrote on Mon, 11 May 2009 05:22


the irony is, the people who've been telling us this tripe for two thousand years... CLEARLY view the whole crucifixion business as a good thing. i can just imagine their inner joy if they were there, whereas if i was there i'd do what i could to stop it.


Jesus seems to be the grandest of all blackmail ploys. Absurd is how contrary the teachings of Jesus is compared to his murderous Father;

This was the God who became so angry that Israeli men were sleeping with Moabite women during their Exodus from Egypt that his anger was "not lifted" till a faithful Israeli stuck a spear through the bodies of the Israeli man and the Moabite woman while they were making love in a tent. How absurd and unfair is that? Cruelly killed for heeding to the law of nature! And God becomes happier after that!

And you check back to Jesus and what does Jesus do to the woman who committed adultery? He says to the accusers that she can only be stoned if they [accusers] are clean themselves! Nice attitude change all of a sudden. And let's not forget that Jesus WAS God in human form. Crazy

It's pretty obvious Jesus physically died on the cross. The fairy tale about his return was most probably written by unknown authors decades later.

During my 2nd year in college a few years ago, during the exams, I went down to my favorite spot in the library to study. It was the perfect spot to study in, no traffic, no noise. But on that day, two girls came to that same exact spot. How dare they intrude upon my secluded study spot! But I was pleased that they were quiet.

Many hours passed and finally one of them got up to leave. She said quietly to her friend, "we will do well, I will pray to Allah." The other responded "I will pray to Allah too and we will pass." She left.

I was a Christian at that point (the devout type that prays before taking exams, food, etc). And I sat there like an absolute douche as the enormity of what I just heard went through my mind. I could not study from that point onwards; my brain went hyper. Wait a minute! I prayed to Jesus for help in the exams. And I know Jesus never fails me! But these girls...these girls are praying to Allah! He is not real...he is fake! How can he help them pass! He is a warmongering criminal! He orders the suicide bombers! A killer!

The thoughts that went through my head that day always haunted me.

That incident kickstarted my quest to uncover the truths about religion. Which religion is right? Which one is wrong? Is religion just made up by isolated groups of humans to help them go thru their everday life? Is that why there were and are so many religions on our planet?

I concluded recently that all of them must be right; they are all correct in their tiny little worlds that they create for themselves.

I asked myself, those girls don't know Jesus so they must be going to hell to be tortured. Pastors will always sing to you and tell how if you accept Jesus you get everlasting life but what they forcefully ignore is that those who don't accept Jesus will go to hell. They never tell you this. I refuse to belong to such sadistic hypocrisy. When will you face the hard facts and answer the difficult questions, Altzan? Or will you sink back to your protected religious cocoon and condemn those who don't belong in your group as "worldy" people?

Though I don't have to do this and hate to reveal personal stuff, let me write about my belief chronology. Just so you know that I humbly and truly mean what I have said so far.

-born into a conservative Christian family

-finished reading the Bible around 12

-wanted to be a pastor when I was 15-16

-for next 5 years, my resolve weakened and I became a normal Christian (sin during weekdays, repent on Sundays)

-living with my parents throughout high school, they protected me well against non-Christian ideals:

Taken to Church every Sunday, taken to group prayer meetings in people's homes, went to churches around the country for monthly meetings, did Church related volunteering work (all are deadly effective control ploys to keep you from challenging your beliefs and going off course). Why do you think Muslims are commanded to pray 5 times a day? Not to appease Allah but to keep their minds in line and not stray off.

We are talking SERIOUS thoughtcrime here...

If today you were dragged to a Mosque and told to worship Allah, will you do it? Of course not. That's how I felt when I was literally screamed at and told to shut the fuck up and get in the car to church. You probably have not faced such a situation so my words are just garbage to you but I am being absolutely honest here. When I think back to those horrible days, it sends a shiver down my spine...I feel sick and nightmarish when I think back to those days.

I have been a Christian every step of the way; I read the Bible, wanted to be a minister, was a devout follower at one point, then became a casual Christian, then a Christian who just did not care, then some form of anti-religious freak, then back for some reason to Christianity with great zealous force (even despising homosexuals to a point I never reached before) but that did not last long, then finally to who I am now and who I will be.

Why all these changes? It difficult to ignore the facts all the time. I tried very very hard to be Christian and my Christian friends here in this forum know it too well. But ultimately the steel door of religion that I was imprisoned behind failed to hide it's cracks and at one point the cracks became so obvious I was just able to kick the fucker down and run out. Without the help of a few good people who stood up for what is truly right, I would not have been able to do so.

I am not a self-righteous intellectual prick; I WAS. I am not arrogant but I WAS. The moment I stopped to fear hell was the moment I can claim I truly reclaimed my mind. All the belief system I had been ingrained with were flushed out. The Christian insurance system of hell (to hold on to your mind) is something I casually laugh at today without fear. I would hope you think about all these things.

For the first time in my life, I feel like a massive weight has been lifted off my mind. Like as if somebody just erased everything from a board. I have a fresh slate to work on. Damn it's a good feeling to not be a slave. I feel like I don't belong to any group and that is tremendously satisfying to me.

I did not make this wall post to stamp anything on you or anyone. I did not make this post to show off any superiority. I did not make this post to show how better off I am.

I had been honest with the writing of this post and revealed some personal information and shared real experiences; all to try to get across the point that I am NOT the "hopeless case" here as you imply of all those who choose to think freely with their minds outside corrupt religious thought control. That I have chosen to be what I am; NOT because I found religion too hard to follow or because I found an easier path (as you conveniently mention in your last post) but because the very foundations of Christianity and EVERY religion is false as explained above (refer to polytheism to monotheism) and that I want no part in the immoral bloodmongerism.

In fact, I feel very very sorry for those still living behind the bars. I really really do.

In the end, you can fearlessly dismiss the content of religions and thereby dismiss religion itself.

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