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Re: Question for Christians [message #385902 is a reply to message #385895]

Wed, 13 May 2009 18:11

Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California

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General (2 Stars)

R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 13 May 2009 17:40

Dover wrote on Wed, 13 May 2009 01:05

R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59

In this case, you are obligated to either accept or deny that he died for your sins. If you accept it, then you accept forgiveness and get your sins renewed. If you deny, than you just go on living like you are.

But that wouldn't affect the outcome, because Jesus already did his thing (dying). The only way that metaphor works is if you believe Jesus is alive in some form deciding who gets to benefit from his sacrifice, which brings is back to "Idk it's faith LOL".

Also, if that was the case, why did he need to die in the first place? What is the significance of the act if it's the acceptance that matters?

You're just not getting it. You're thinking in black in white.

This isn't comparable to other situations. That's what I was getting at with the cold example. Just because there are other things in this world that exist that don't work the same way as this situation, doesn't make this situation wrong. It just makes it different.

It's just how it is. Do you argue why there are certain rules in different games? Like "Why do I have to put red cards on black cards in solitaire?" It's like that because it's like that, don't try comparing it to anything else saying "Well, since this is like this, obviously that can't be right."

Basic Summery:
-His death is the price he pays to have everyone's sins forgiven.
-You are ultimately in charge of your own sins, so you're sins wont be forgiven unless you give your consent to them being so.
-By accepting the fact that his death gives you forgiveness, you receive that forgiveness.
-By denying it, you don't receive the forgiveness.

Bottom line, if you want to accept his offer to renew your sins, you believe in him. That's about as simple as it gets.

But it's NOT different, at least not suitably different. Logic applies to everything, all the time, forever. No exceptions. To say "These are the rules, accept them as such and don't question them" is just a wordier variation on "idk it's faith LOL!!1!". Anything else is a cheap(er) cop-out.

Bottom line: Just because that's what it says it some book doesn't make it make any more sense.

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

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		Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: cnc95fan on Sun, 10 May 2009 13:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Tue, 12 May 2009 16:52
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 13 May 2009 04:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: _SSnipe_ on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: futura83 on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:32
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 21:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 08:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Mon, 11 May 2009 10:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 11:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 16:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:42
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 22:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 13 May 2009 17:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 13 May 2009 18:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 13 May 2009 20:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: The Party on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:53
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ma1kel on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 18 May 2009 10:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 23 May 2009 18:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 24 May 2009 20:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 26 May 2009 23:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 27 May 2009 20:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 27 May 2009 21:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sat, 23 May 2009 21:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 24 May 2009 11:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 25 May 2009 08:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: Rocko on Tue, 26 May 2009 20:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 27 May 2009 18:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 21:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 06:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: Scrin on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 29 May 2009 04:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 29 May 2009 06:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 08:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 10:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: halo2pac on Fri, 29 May 2009 11:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: IAmFenix on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 04 June 2009 08:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 June 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 11:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 05 June 2009 16:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 21:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 06 June 2009 09:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 04:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 07:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 16:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 17:30
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 18:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 19:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 19:58
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Wed, 10 June 2009 21:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 07:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 11:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 23:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 05:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:32
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 11 June 2009 15:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 08:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 13:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 15:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:06
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:58
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Sat, 13 June 2009 11:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:44
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:38
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Sat, 13 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 21:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sun, 14 June 2009 02:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 14 June 2009 08:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 14 June 2009 10:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 14:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Mon, 15 June 2009 00:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 15 June 2009 07:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 15 June 2009 09:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 21:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 16 June 2009 16:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 17 June 2009 11:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 June 2009 13:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 June 2009 15:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:53

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