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Re: Question for Christians [message #385469 is a reply to message #385464]

Sun, 10 May 2009 22:11

cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan

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R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 May 2009 00:41

Edit:
OHH I get what you are trying to say. But I think you're stopping your reasoning a bit short.

It's not simply that we are forgiven because he died for our sins. We are only forgiven if we believe he did.

Think of it sort of like a two part objective for each individual person's debt to be payed off. Him dying would meet the first objective, us believing would be the second objective.

It's not a question of whether or not it is reasonable or not, it's simply the rules of the game.

I mean, do you question why you collect $100 every time you pass 'Go' in Monopoly? It's the same situation here.

If a debt is forgiven, then a debt is forgiven. It's that debt that separates us from God and Heaven, and that was paid by Christ's death on the cross. Nothing else keeps us from God but our sinfulness. Which, again, is overtaken by Christ's death.

Besides, you just lead me back into my second point. If we have to BELIEVE that Christ died on the cross for our sins, then it wasn't the dying that clears our debt, but our acknowledgment of the falsified payment (that are are to believe is truth!).

Also, we're not capable of earning our way into Heaven. It's through Christ ONLY that we are able to achieve salvation. Having a 'second objective' negates Christ being the ONLY way.

whoa.

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[Message index]

		Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: cnc95fan on Sun, 10 May 2009 13:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 11 May 2009 03:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 07:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Tue, 12 May 2009 16:52
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 13 May 2009 04:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: _SSnipe_ on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: futura83 on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 15:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 02:32
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 10 May 2009 21:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Sun, 10 May 2009 22:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 08:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Mon, 11 May 2009 10:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 11 May 2009 11:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 16:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 11 May 2009 18:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 14:42
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 12 May 2009 22:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 13 May 2009 17:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 13 May 2009 18:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 13 May 2009 20:11
		Re: Question for Christians By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Mon, 11 May 2009 19:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: The Party on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:53
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 19 May 2009 06:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Tue, 12 May 2009 20:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ma1kel on Mon, 18 May 2009 09:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 18 May 2009 10:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 23 May 2009 18:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sun, 24 May 2009 20:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Tue, 26 May 2009 23:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 27 May 2009 20:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 27 May 2009 21:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sat, 23 May 2009 21:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Sun, 24 May 2009 11:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Mon, 25 May 2009 08:34
		Re: Question for Christians By: u6795 on Mon, 25 May 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Mon, 25 May 2009 22:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Tue, 26 May 2009 18:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: Rocko on Tue, 26 May 2009 20:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 27 May 2009 18:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 26 May 2009 21:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 06:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: Scrin on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:59
		Re: Question for Christians By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 29 May 2009 04:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 29 May 2009 06:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 08:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 08:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 09:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 10:05
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 14:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: jnz on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 19:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 28 May 2009 20:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 28 May 2009 21:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: halo2pac on Fri, 29 May 2009 11:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: IAmFenix on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 04 June 2009 08:37
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 June 2009 12:24
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 11:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 05 June 2009 16:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 05 June 2009 21:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 06 June 2009 09:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 04:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 07:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 16:21
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 17:30
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 18:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 10 June 2009 19:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 19:58
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:13
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Wed, 10 June 2009 21:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 07:28
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:45
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:07
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 08:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 11 June 2009 09:18
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 11:47
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Thu, 11 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 23:29
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 05:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Thu, 11 June 2009 12:32
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Thu, 11 June 2009 15:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Fri, 12 June 2009 07:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 08:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 13:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:09
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:57
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 14:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 15:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:08
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:16
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:33
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:06
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:12
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:55
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:58
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:56
		Re: Question for Christians By: Dover on Sat, 13 June 2009 11:40
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 17:44
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 18:54
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:19
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:31
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 20:51
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 23:41
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:17
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Fri, 12 June 2009 19:38
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sat, 13 June 2009 18:36
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Sat, 13 June 2009 19:10
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Sat, 13 June 2009 21:04
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Sun, 14 June 2009 02:02
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Sun, 14 June 2009 08:27
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Sun, 14 June 2009 10:00
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 14:43
		Re: Question for Christians By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: Muad Dib15 on Sun, 14 June 2009 19:25
		Re: Question for Christians By: AADude7 on Mon, 15 June 2009 00:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 15 June 2009 07:23
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 15 June 2009 09:35
		Re: Question for Christians By: Ryan3k on Sun, 14 June 2009 21:22
		Re: Question for Christians By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 16 June 2009 16:49
		Re: Question for Christians By: Altzan on Wed, 17 June 2009 11:50
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 June 2009 13:03
		Re: Question for Christians By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 June 2009 15:20
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:01
		Re: Question for Christians By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 18 June 2009 05:15
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:14
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Mon, 22 June 2009 13:46
		Re: Question for Christians By: Spoony on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:39
		Re: Question for Christians By: Herr Surth on Tue, 23 June 2009 05:53

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