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Re: Why did you vote for Obama? [message #362014 is a reply to message #361945]

Mon, 08 December 2008 18:17

Spoony
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Jecht wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 07:16

I'm still against Gay marriage, but not against Gay rights. In my personal opinion (this is why I'm not a politician), I believe marriage stems from religion and is separate.

Marriage was going on before anyone was keeping proper written records. So you can guess that, and your guess would be no worse than mine, but one thing we can say for certain is that it was no religion that's practiced today in any major capacity, because Christianity, Judaism etc do not predate written records.

Jecht wrote on Mon, 08 December 2008 07:16

I'll just be content for now to let politicians interpret what they see fit is a right granted by the constitution. I'll let scientists hash out whether it's a choice or biological.

I'm no scientist either, yet it seems blindingly obvious that homosexuality is not a choice. Don't ask me though... ask a gay person.

As for the rest of your post, if the only religious activity going on were friendly, inclusive local services, then atheists like me would have no complaint to make about religion. My objection to Christianity is not just that I find it very difficult to believe (even as a child, and like I said it was "taught" to me with the same certainty as what was being taught in, say, physics), it's that it contains moral teachings that I find absolutely appalling. See: vicarious redemption, inheritance of punishment, the ghastly idea that one can be punished for an eternity after death, etc.

Still, no matter how primitive and barbaric I find this stuff to be, you are very welcome to believe it as long as you leave other people alone. Sadly religion can never be trusted to do this, and until it does you can't fault me for supporting the cause of secularism. In other words, freedom of religion - no problem - just remember freedom from religion too. It has no place interfering with other peoples' lives, as it does everywhere, all the time.

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[Message index]

		Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 05:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 15:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: z310 on Thu, 06 November 2008 09:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: AmunRa on Fri, 07 November 2008 15:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 09 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 10:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:19
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 09 November 2008 15:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: TD on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 06:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 11 November 2008 19:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 03:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 12 November 2008 06:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 12 November 2008 13:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 13 November 2008 01:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 13 November 2008 05:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: _SSnipe_ on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ethenal on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Mon, 10 November 2008 05:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 11:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 20:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: JPNOD on Sat, 15 November 2008 02:37
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 15 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 16 November 2008 22:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: bisen11 on Mon, 17 November 2008 00:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 18 November 2008 20:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 19 November 2008 10:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 19 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 19 November 2008 19:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: CarrierII on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 19 November 2008 05:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: luv2pb on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 23 November 2008 12:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 06:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 24 November 2008 08:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 11:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Tue, 25 November 2008 20:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 07:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Wed, 26 November 2008 13:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Mon, 24 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 24 November 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 25 November 2008 06:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 November 2008 10:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 26 November 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 10:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 14:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 26 November 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 28 November 2008 07:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Fri, 28 November 2008 21:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 29 November 2008 00:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 05:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 07:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 30 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Tue, 02 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 03 December 2008 22:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sat, 29 November 2008 20:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 30 November 2008 14:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 01 December 2008 05:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 01 December 2008 07:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 05:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 15:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 30 November 2008 16:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 02 December 2008 20:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 02 December 2008 13:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 07:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Fri, 05 December 2008 12:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 23:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 06 December 2008 15:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 04 December 2008 06:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Fri, 05 December 2008 01:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Thu, 04 December 2008 14:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 08:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 10:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Fri, 05 December 2008 14:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 18:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 23:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 03:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 07 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 18:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Thu, 11 December 2008 01:06
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 11 December 2008 06:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 11 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 12:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:36
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 20:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 00:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:10
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Thu, 11 December 2008 11:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 17:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 16 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 23:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 17 December 2008 00:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 10:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:03

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