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Re: Why did you vote for Obama? [message #361864 is a reply to message #361857]

Sun, 07 December 2008 13:53

Spoony
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Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 07 December 2008 14:31

And there's plenty of other religions who just so happen to be instructed to commit violence.

Yes, I'd not say otherwise, although right now the death toll in the name of Islam is a great deal higher than the others.

Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 07 December 2008 14:31

Or, y'know, (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) don't really follow religion. Or if they do, it's incredibly loosely. Yeah, only the Muslims commit violence, amirite?

Read my earlier post about atheism. Just because you find an atheist who does something bad, it doesn't mean atheism is bad, it doesn't mean atheism is responsible for what they did. Equally, I would not say Islam is bad just because a Muslim does something bad.

BUT, and don't skip over this: if a Muslim does something bad WHEN THE ISLAMIC HOLY BOOKS SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCT HIM TO DO IT, you absolutely can (indeed, you must) fault Islam. This is the difference; there is no atheist holy book, there is nobody telling you you must carry out acts of violence against innocent bystanders, etc. You're mistaking atheism for just another religion; it's not. it's the LACK of a religion, it means you can figure out your morality for yourself instead of going by the unsupported and contradictory writings of people who, at the time the books were written, clearly didn't know much about the world we live in.

As for your three examples, you picked some pretty odd ones. Hitler was religious; he repeatedly stated in public that the reason he hated Jews so much was because he was a Christian and he held them responsible for deicide, something the Bible readily accommodates. (You might argue that he was simply pretending to be a Christian in order to gain public support, but even if you want to argue this, it hardly works in Christianity's favour or works against atheism)
Stalin personally wasn't religious, but his regime absolutely was, as was Mao's.

Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 07 December 2008 14:31

I understand why you dislike the Muslim extremism, and it pisses me off, too. But, there are some who perceive it differently. I mean, shit, should I tell you you're a angsty little teenager because a good lot of atheists are angsty little teenagers?

No, because there is no positive ideological connection between myself and any other atheist you care to name. Simply the fact that neither of us believe in a god doesn't mean shit. If you don't believe in the tooth fairy and neither does Stalin, that doesn't mean you have a damn thing in common.

Cabal8616 wrote on Sun, 07 December 2008 14:31

For the most part, Muslims just so happen to be in the spotlight of hatred right now, and you're kind of just falling into that crowd. Look at it from more perspectives than just what you see.

This doesn't make any kind of sense. I'm not falling into a crowd, I'm looking at the staggering death toll being racked up in the name of Islam, I'm looking at the fanatical opposition to human rights and scientific progress. As for "Muslims being in the spotlight of hatred", you don't know me very well. I don't seek to criminalise somebody for their religion; that's thoughtcrime. The idea that you can be convicted because of what you think is wholly repellent to me, and it's yet another gripe I have against several religions who do exactly that.

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		Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 05:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 15:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: z310 on Thu, 06 November 2008 09:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: AmunRa on Fri, 07 November 2008 15:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 09 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 10:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:19
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 09 November 2008 15:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: TD on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 06:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 11 November 2008 19:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 03:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 12 November 2008 06:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 12 November 2008 13:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 13 November 2008 01:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 13 November 2008 05:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: _SSnipe_ on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ethenal on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Mon, 10 November 2008 05:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 11:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 20:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: JPNOD on Sat, 15 November 2008 02:37
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 15 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 16 November 2008 22:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: bisen11 on Mon, 17 November 2008 00:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 18 November 2008 20:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 19 November 2008 10:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 19 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 19 November 2008 19:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: CarrierII on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 19 November 2008 05:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: luv2pb on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 23 November 2008 12:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 06:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 24 November 2008 08:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 11:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Tue, 25 November 2008 20:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 07:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Wed, 26 November 2008 13:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Mon, 24 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 24 November 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 25 November 2008 06:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 November 2008 10:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 26 November 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 10:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 14:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 26 November 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 28 November 2008 07:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Fri, 28 November 2008 21:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 29 November 2008 00:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 05:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 07:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 30 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Tue, 02 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 03 December 2008 22:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sat, 29 November 2008 20:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 30 November 2008 14:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 01 December 2008 05:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 01 December 2008 07:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 05:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 15:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 30 November 2008 16:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 02 December 2008 20:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 02 December 2008 13:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 07:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Fri, 05 December 2008 12:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 23:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 06 December 2008 15:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 04 December 2008 06:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Fri, 05 December 2008 01:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Thu, 04 December 2008 14:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 08:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 10:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Fri, 05 December 2008 14:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 18:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 23:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 03:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 07 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 18:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Thu, 11 December 2008 01:06
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 11 December 2008 06:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 11 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 12:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:36
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 20:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 00:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:10
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Thu, 11 December 2008 11:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 17:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 16 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 23:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 17 December 2008 00:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 10:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:03

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