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Re: Gun control [message #337939 is a reply to message #337914]

Sat, 28 June 2008 23:15

cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan

Karma:

General (5 Stars)

R315r4z0r

The Bill of Rights is just that a list of rights not rules. Rules are put in place to give limitations, not grant abilities and rights. Having the right to freedom, press, speech, religion, ect, is not something I would consider a "rule." Having the right to bear arms isn't a rule either.

The Constitution, like I said, is NOT A RULE BOOK. It is a guideline on how to run the country in which rules are BASED from. The Constitution isn't the "highest law of the land" it is the backbone behind the law of the land. For example, a rule can be made as long as the Constitution supports it. If the Constitution doesn't support it, then the rule is not enforced. The same way dollar bills need to back backed up by silver and gold. Without the gold, the paper is worthless.

But anyway, going back to what I said before about it being a guideline... because it is a guideline, we can sway away from it as much as we want except when we cross it and what we do becomes unconstitutional. For example, punishments for crimes can be dealt with anyway seen fit, but if the punishment is seen as undeserving or cruel and unusual, then there is a problem.

However, this is all besides the point. This is why I hate politics so much. It goes from a simple discussion to a debate on why and why not something can or cannot be done. We should be instating and enforcing what is best for the country, not what is best outlined in the Constitution. This is why political parties fail. I mean they original started out healthy, but now everything is divided because of stupid disagreements. Instead of labeling people on what they like and what you don't, we should all be looking at what is best for the country, for the people. I've seen so many people not vote for a president that supported what they thought might be good for the country just because they were of a different party than them. It's pointless, I tell you.

erhm... but I went off on a tangent this time.. forget what I said, this thread's discussion is gone and I've lost interest. You can reply to my post, but don't expect me to reply back to yours (unless you specifically request I do, in which case I might think about it.)

Also btw, to the person who said America wasn't a democracy but a republic. No, it is neither. It is a Democratic-Republic, taking the best interests of both systems and combining it into something unique.

You do understand that the Constitution and the Amendments were written to limit the powers of government, right? Therefore, it HAS to be a rule book. The Amendments aren't saying, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms should probably not be infringed upon." It says it SHALL NOT be infringed upon. There's no room in that phrasing for there to be any "guideline". That was written as a direct COMMAND towards the government to not take away that right.

THEN in the 10th Amendment, it states that the powers NOT granted to Congress already nor prohibited to the States, are given to the States and the people. Again, there's no, "maybe you should let the States handle it." It was a direct command telling the federal government to back the fuck off.

Guidelines usually imply some leeway in how to deal with things. Our Amendments were written with such strong language that it's meant to be taken 100% seriously and followed to its fullest extent.

Our founding fathers knew fucking damn well what a powerful government would do. That is why the Constitution was written in the first place. These men were incredibly brilliant. They knew what they were dealing with in terms of tyrannical governments. They knew what was best left in the hands of the people. To tell me that we should regard their document, the foundation of our nation, as merely a guideline is an insult to them.

Please understand the founding fathers knew what they were talking about. I don't know if I can ever stress this enough. What they have said about powerful governments and the consequences of that has rang true. These things were said 200 years ago. Human nature doesn't change. The quest for power and the greed of money is universal and timeless. To regard the Constitution as something that merely guides us in the right direction, but ultimately should give way to what the people believe is foolish.

I don't know how this has anything to do with political parties, but I will agree with you completely. People are stuck with stupid alliances, and they won't waiver. It's why I hate the two party system. My mom mentioned she's heard a lot of people saying they won't vote this year. I shake my head at this unpatriotic act. If they truly cared that much, they'd vote for someone they actually agree with.

As far as America now being a Democratic-Republic, yeah, and that's unfortunate. It wasn't meant to be nearly this democratic. I really do wish Senators were back to being appointed by the States.

whoa.

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[Message index]

		Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 25 June 2008 06:03
		Re: Gun control By: IronWarrior on Wed, 25 June 2008 06:19
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 06:24
		Re: Gun control By: Caveman on Wed, 25 June 2008 06:49
		Re: Gun control By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 25 June 2008 17:39
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 06:59
		Re: Gun control By: Ryu on Wed, 25 June 2008 07:27
		Re: Gun control By: Caveman on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:33
		Re: Gun control By: SlikRik on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:39
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:47
		Re: Gun control By: w0dka on Fri, 27 June 2008 15:10
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 27 June 2008 17:58
		Re: Gun control By: CarrierII on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:51
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:57
		Re: Gun control By: IronWarrior on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:58
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 09:02
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 25 June 2008 08:58
		Re: Gun control By: Ghostshaw on Wed, 25 June 2008 09:04
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Wed, 25 June 2008 09:07
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 09:07
		Re: Gun control By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 25 June 2008 09:23
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 10:34
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 10:44
		Re: Gun control By: Caveman on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:06
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:02
		Re: Gun control By: IronWarrior on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:07
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:18
		Re: Gun control By: IronWarrior on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:30
		Re: Gun control By: Spoony on Wed, 25 June 2008 12:47
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:37
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 25 June 2008 14:28
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 25 June 2008 12:07
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 12:13
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 12:11
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Wed, 25 June 2008 12:24
		Re: Gun control By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 25 June 2008 13:08
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 25 June 2008 13:10
		Re: Gun control By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Wed, 25 June 2008 13:11
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Wed, 25 June 2008 13:42
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 13:23
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 15:20
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 15:36
		Re: Gun control By: trooprm02 on Wed, 25 June 2008 16:03
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 25 June 2008 16:58
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 17:20
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 25 June 2008 17:25
		Re: Gun control By: SlikRik on Wed, 25 June 2008 17:30
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 25 June 2008 17:47
		Re: Gun control By: w0dka on Fri, 27 June 2008 15:48
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 08:34
		Re: Gun control By: SlikRik on Thu, 26 June 2008 08:51
		Re: Gun control By: Muad Dib15 on Thu, 26 June 2008 10:17
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 11:03
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 26 June 2008 09:36
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 11:27
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 11:50
		Re: Gun control By: SlikRik on Thu, 26 June 2008 11:58
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 12:07
		Re: Gun control By: SlikRik on Thu, 26 June 2008 12:23
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 12:48
		Re: Gun control By: BlueThen on Thu, 26 June 2008 13:05
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 14:41
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 13:54
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 26 June 2008 16:02
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 16:31
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:01
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:45
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:56
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:32
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Thu, 26 June 2008 19:41
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 26 June 2008 20:47
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 June 2008 06:18
		Re: Gun control By: sadukar09 on Fri, 27 June 2008 04:08
		Re: Gun control By: sadukar09 on Fri, 27 June 2008 16:52
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 27 June 2008 04:31
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 27 June 2008 06:31
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 June 2008 06:41
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 27 June 2008 06:48
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Fri, 27 June 2008 12:59
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 27 June 2008 13:58
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 27 June 2008 14:53
		Re: Gun control By: R315r4z0r on Sat, 28 June 2008 18:47
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Sat, 28 June 2008 19:09
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Sat, 28 June 2008 23:15
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 03 July 2008 10:48
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Fri, 27 June 2008 15:22
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 28 June 2008 08:31
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Sat, 28 June 2008 08:49
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 28 June 2008 09:06
		Re: Gun control By: ids48 on Sun, 29 June 2008 03:33
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Sun, 29 June 2008 03:53
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 29 June 2008 12:47
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:00
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:32
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Wed, 02 July 2008 12:06
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 02 July 2008 13:33
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Wed, 02 July 2008 15:01
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Wed, 02 July 2008 15:14
		Re: Gun control By: Memphis on Thu, 03 July 2008 15:32
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 03 July 2008 15:59
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Thu, 03 July 2008 17:31
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 03 July 2008 22:00
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Fri, 04 July 2008 07:26
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 04 July 2008 10:28
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Fri, 04 July 2008 10:43
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 04 July 2008 13:18
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Fri, 04 July 2008 13:38
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 04 July 2008 13:40
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Fri, 04 July 2008 13:54
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 04 July 2008 14:39
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Fri, 04 July 2008 20:01
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 04 July 2008 20:11
		Re: Gun control By: warranto on Fri, 04 July 2008 21:39
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Wed, 09 July 2008 20:16
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 10 July 2008 05:16
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 10 July 2008 11:34
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Thu, 10 July 2008 13:50
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 10 July 2008 14:36
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 10 July 2008 15:02
		Re: Gun control By: Ryu on Fri, 11 July 2008 11:15
		Re: Gun control By: Muad Dib15 on Fri, 11 July 2008 18:44
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 July 2008 11:26
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 11 July 2008 11:39
		Re: Gun control By: Herr Surth on Fri, 11 July 2008 11:51
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Fri, 11 July 2008 12:55
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Fri, 11 July 2008 13:05
		Re: Gun control By: GoArmy44 on Fri, 11 July 2008 14:56
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 September 2008 12:42
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Thu, 04 September 2008 17:18
		Re: Gun control By: u6795 on Thu, 04 September 2008 13:21
		Re: Gun control By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Thu, 04 September 2008 13:26
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 September 2008 17:25
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Thu, 04 September 2008 17:34
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 September 2008 17:44
		Re: Gun control By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 04 September 2008 18:11
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Thu, 04 September 2008 18:31
		Re: Gun control By: u6795 on Thu, 04 September 2008 18:57
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 04 September 2008 19:16
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Thu, 04 September 2008 22:10
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Fri, 05 September 2008 05:07
		Re: Gun control By: u6795 on Fri, 05 September 2008 11:42
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Fri, 05 September 2008 21:45
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 05 September 2008 22:12
		Re: Gun control By: cheesesoda on Sat, 06 September 2008 05:48
		Re: Gun control By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 06 September 2008 08:47
		Re: Gun control By: Rocko on Sat, 06 September 2008 14:09
		Re: Gun control By: Cabal X39 on Sat, 06 September 2008 15:25
		Re: Gun control By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 06 September 2008 17:06

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