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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #302301 is a reply to message #302287] Mon, 10 December 2007 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Dover is currently offline  Dover
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cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

Why are people greedy? A good deal of it is human nature, but human nature also has a lot of compassion. I blame a lot of the hoarding and materialistic views on the government. They've been eager to help the less fortunate out with handing them over checks. Yes, there are people who receive it and do good with it, but most of it's wasted, and people don't try to improve.


I almost stopped reading right here. Ridiculous. "Human nature" is a LAZY excuse for flaws. "Oh, please pardon my greed. It's just the way I am".
People are (mostly) a product of their environment. Children raised in a world of greed are (usually) greedy. Children raised otherwise are (usually) not.
Furthermore, people are responsible for their own actions. If you are a drug addict, you attempt to get clean. If you damage public property, you pay for it. IF YOU ARE GREEDY, YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

A community will come together and help each other out in times of need. We've seen time and time again that communities come together after a natural disaster and help each other clean up and rebuild. There's very little government help in that. It's all the people working to rebuild their communities. If we force people to work with each other instead of turn to the government, we can survive.


Why must compassion only show it's face in times of natural (or unnatural) disaster? Is that really compassion at all?

And what is "government", if not people working together? If you took a group of citizens, organized them, apointed a leader and gave them a task, have you not just created government?

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

Quite frankly, Americans have been living in luxury for the two centuries that we've been a nation. It wasn't until the 1930s-1960s did we see any welfare programs. What happened in the previous century and a half? We didn't have any welfare state, but our nation didn't fall apart. In fact, our nation flourished. It wasn't until the 1960s did we see people stop caring about actually working, and that's when most of the modern welfare system was formed. That fact isn't perfectly correlated, but it does show that it only helped to support the belief that people shouldn't have to work to earn their money.


We'll ignore slave trade and exploitation of native Americans and minorities, and their hand in the "flourishing" of America, then.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

So where am I going with this? For the most part, people are kind and generous. There are plenty of people willing to give more than their fair share to others, and then there are those of us who are willing to give, though we don't give much outside of our comfort zone. I, also, realize that there are people who will hoard their money, but those are the type of people who will also cheat on their taxes, so forcing them to pay doesn't work that well, either.


In times where the top 1% of the population holds 20% of the wealth, and the top 20% of the population holds 80% of the wealth, I think there are more hoarders and cheaters and less givers than you realize.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

If we force people to rely on each other as mankind has done for THOUSANDS of years, a welfare system is not needed. The people will come together and assist each other when it's needed.


That's the idea behind a welfare state. Understand that "when it's needed" isn't only in case of hurricanes and terrorist attacks.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

I see why the welfare state was created in the first place. The Great Depression happened, and it affected everyone, some more than others. The government did what it had to, and I feel that it did what was right to protect the nation. However, we're not in an economic depression, let alone one of a catastrophic magnitude. We don't need to rely on our government to survive, anymore.


Except we ARE in hyperinflation at the moment. Are you aware that the Canadian doller is now more valuable than the US dollar? I submit that we are in an economic crisis.

And even IF we as a nation are not, that doesn't mean that there aren't people out that that need help.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

Besides this, it's the sheer principle that you're trying to steal my money to give to someone else who I don't care to give to. Most people under welfare don't dare lift a finger, and they benefit from my and your hard work. Those people won't lift a finger after they received the check besides to spend it. They won't try to better themselves. If it was privatized, the organizations would be working with the people, making a much higher success rate.


If it were privitized, you'd be holding millions of people's lives hostage to the whim of capitalist monoliths. I'd much rather have someone I can hold accountable.

cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 10:18

Oh, and taxing me on my wages is wrong, too. Note, I'm not saying "income" because income defined by the Supreme Court is profit, and wages are not profit. They are, effectively, a barter. You exchanged your labor for currency. It's a trade between what you have and can offer to get what you want (labor for wages), and what they have and can offer to get what they want (wages for labor). It's not profit. It's like asking me for change for a $20, and then the government saying "oh, currency is being transfered, so I'm going to consider that to be income and tax it".


Fudge over definitions all you want, the facts remain the same. You are in a certain income bracket, therefore you pay your income tax. If you were truely so stricken by these taxes, your earnings would be so low you would be exempt from all but social security taxes. Clearly, you have the money. Just deal with it and pay your 40 cents a month for needles.

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

Remember kids the internet is serious business.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 December 2007 12:02]

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