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Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241377 is a reply to message #241350] Fri, 26 January 2007 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Blazer is currently offline  Blazer
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msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

You're joking, right? There was a really long post he started where he admited he cheated, apologized, and promised not to do it again.
So you are just unforgiving and demand that everyone be perfect?

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

It is the FACT that THE person you rely on to create this application actually DID cheat in open, public servers.. and the ALLEGATION that the server owner knew about it, slapped his hand and hoped he wouldn't do it again.
Yes, SK fucked up. To be honest our team is too small to "fire" someone just because they made a mistake. This doesn't mean he or anyone else has total immunity to do whatever and automatically be forgiven, but SK does provide valuable services to our team, and he made a mistake and was forgiven. If we had a team of a dozen programmers would we have been more harsh with him? To be honest probably not, because SK is more than just a team member, we have worked with him for years and he is also a friend, and when your friend makes a mistake you might be dissappointed in them and be angry, but you don't just turn your back on them, especially if they are sorry for what they did.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

This isn't about a smart guy who knows how to cheat working with you to make sure that you create a program to stop people. It's about that same person using his knowledge to actually cheat, and hope that he could continue to get away with it.
I do not believe SK created cheats for the sole purpose of cheating. He created cheats because he can do *anything* with the game, and was just having some fun with his dev version of the game client (Yes the fun was the wrong kind of fun). If he was truly trying to cheat I doubt he would have been doing crazy things like spawning chickens in servers, and he would be near the top of the ladder instead of the bottom.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

And it's about an organization that we are all supposed to trust and love for keeping the game cheat free, covering it all up to save face.
We do not expect trust or love (I know that these days either one is too much to expect no matter what you do or give someone). We just want folks who play Renegade to have a fair and fun game, and we spend hundreds of dollars per month of our own money and time towards that end. I know that as a former server owner, you know what its like to give to a community and just want them to have fun.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

I don't believe that anything else produced will have a "trojan" in it, I won't refuse to install it because I'm "scared" of what it might contain. I just can't seem to understand why I would trust that this application would do anything other than the current one..
keep n00bs from cheating until they find the new, real cheats hidden online. Dont' you think we'll always be wondering what SK and his friends have come up with this time that none of us have thought about?
You make a valid point, but anti-cheat software is always a cat and mouse game. The RG update will stop ALL of current cheats. I have no doubt that at some point, another bypass will appear on the scene, but that is just the nature of this, and why we specifically designed the RenGuard system to allow easy auto-updates.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

Actually, at this point, I dislike BHS more for the way they are handling this whole situation, and for basically destroying any faith I may have in their future products peformance.
Again, I fail to see the connection between the personal actions of a team member and the performance of a project that they wrote some lines of code for. Yeah I guess it's easy to say "SK cheated so he can't be trusted therefore anything he touches is tainted", but I refuse to believe you are that shallow.

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

You know me Blazer.. You've known me for a long time, and I have never done anything other than stand behind you both, and help to defend you against baseless accusation from disgruntled idiots. We have always had the same thoughts in regards to how people should be treated and situations handled in our communities. We part ways here, I guess... I'm not here to just "expose you".. I'm here because I would love to be able to trust RenGuard for another 4 years, and trust that it honestly is doing what it claims to be doing. We've banned thousands of players off our servers for cheating, and shunned them from the game with no possible recourse except to buy another serial and change their IP/Identity... SK isn't "special", and he shouldn't be given the "special" treatment you are, simply because he is the backbone of what you are creating..
As I explained above...SK is not just some n00b to be banned away because we don't give a shit about him. Most of those players we (all server owners) have banned from our games were banned because we knew they could care less about our server or gameplay, and their sole intent was to cause misery, so to hell with them. Do you really think SK should be treated the same as those destructive anarchists? I'm not sure what special treatment you think he is getting. He has been forbidden from testing with his dev client in public servers, and he got more than an earful from Crimson for what he did. He was not "fired" from BHS because he admitted his mistakes and apologized. As I said he and the rest of us do not have total immunity, if he had done something truly bad with no remorse he certainly would have been treated harshly and not forgiven, but I guess what you are still failing to see is that in his mind he was doing no harm and was just testing his toys. Again, yes what he did and the way he did it was wrong, we know that, and he knows it, and he has said he is sorry. If you cannot forgive him for making a mistake that's your choice, but it makes no logical sense to transfer your distrust of him to the RG product just because he is on the team that created it, otherwise you might as well distrust MS Windows just because some of the developers have police records Smile

msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59

That makes your creation worthless, in my opinion. To me, this wasn't a "happy announcement" about a renguard update..
RenGuard was created to stop cheating, and that's what it will continue to do. We may not be able to get fixes and updates out within 24 hours like anti-virus companies, but we are just volunteers doing this because we want to keep the game alive. A lot of work and money went into the past RenGuard versions, and this update is no different. I'd hardly call it worthless, but try to keep in mind you are the primary "demographic" (people who love the game and play it seriously and often) that we are trying to serve.

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