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Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters [message #238409 is a reply to message #238355]

Wed, 10 January 2007 12:58

EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands

Karma:

General (3 Stars)

Blazer wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:54

Just a few random thoughts:

1. Banning cheaters from XWIS is useless. Honestly most people that I have personally caught cheating were not connected from XWIS, and using names like "LOL I Hax".

If I would know that XWIS is rather cheat free I am sure we would setup the server to only allow XWIS players. Server owners may choose what they want. Want the GSA players too? Ok, but then you might get more cheaters. thats your own choise then.

Quote:

2. There is definitely a *current* problem with people using RG bypasses. BHS is working hard on getting RG 1.04 out which will stop all of the current bypasses and also close up other vulnerabiliies (and lots of other things like new features and compatibility with win2k and 64bit systems).

3. Server-side cheat detection is definitely a plus. While server side cheat detection cannot do everything RenGuard can, I think its definitely the way to go. This is one of the reasons that BHS is coordinating with EA on getting access to the FDS source code so that we can release an FDS that has enhanced anti-cheat capabilities and other bug fixes. Some folks like Whitedragon and BI are already testing server-side cheat detection via scripts.dll mods.

You don't need the source code for that specifically, but it would be rahter usefull for fixing other stuff.
Our serverside antichiet, BIATCH, is currently running on BlackIntel1 BlackIntel2 and TheKOSs2/BlackIntel3 and just on BI1 and BI2 it has detected about 125 cheaters since we started testing.

Quote:

4. BHS is working on a fix for the FDS that will allow true cdkey banning. This combined with an IP ban should make it easier for server owners to ban people and keep them gone.

I'm sure that should be done by now as from what I've seen it isnt that hard (for StealthEye that is) and I expect that SK knows a thing or 2 about renegade so...

Quote:

5. I believe Spoonys proposal (of banning cheaters from XWIS) is, how do you say...he means well and its a good idea, but as I noted in #1, it just will not be effective, since they can just direct connect, or come from gamespy, etc. I havn't actually talked to Olaf about the XWIS banning protocols, but I was under the impression that XWIS bans were more for people who were abusing XWIS itself (page flooding, loading bots, etc). I dont know where all this talk of "spoony should be made an XWIS admin so that he can ban people because Crimson isn't doing her job" came from. Like I said Crimson and/or strike-team could place an xwis ban on every known cheater, and it would make little to no difference in stoping the current cheating in renegade, because most of the cheaters already connect via Gamespy or direct connnect (or, if they don't know, they would once they were banned).

You can block direct connect if you want to...

Quote:

6. The Renegade community of players is "too small" to ban everyone who has ever done anything wrong. You would be surprised how many people load a cheat just to see how it works, or just to test it, or to try and counter another cheater. I think the best anti-cheat mechanism is to simply BLOCK them from cheating - make their cheats not work. This is pretty much the goal of RenGuard. If they have cheats or modified files, they simply cannot play on RG-protected servers. The only people we actually ban from RenGuard are people who attack RenGuard itself, (usually people caught testing or creating a bypass). I've noticed that BI's server-side anti-cheat works in a similar manner...instead of detecting that someone is cheating and kicking the player, it detects that they are doing more damage than they should and just *ignores* the extra damage, thus nullifying their cheat. This is a much better way to stop cheating - make the cheats simply not work, no ban lists to manage, no "my brother/friend/neighbor/dog did it" excuses, etc. Of course it is still up to server owners if they want to ban someone, which is why BHS is working on the cdkey ban fix.

Thats it...sorry for the randomness, like I said, just thinking out loud.

There are plenty of places to just test a cheat without bothering other ppl so that shouldn't be an excuse. You can always use lan mode or just try it with some friends.

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BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/

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[Message index]

		Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 00:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 06 January 2007 01:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: DarkKnight on Sat, 06 January 2007 21:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 01:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 04:06
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 06:12
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 06:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 11:57
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 07:28
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 07:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 08:29
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sat, 06 January 2007 13:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:19
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:01
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:28
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: IronWarrior on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 16:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: IronWarrior on Sat, 06 January 2007 16:34
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 18:50
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 23:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:00
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 12:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: trooprm02 on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:04
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: luv2pb on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Canadacdn on Sat, 06 January 2007 21:24
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 January 2007 03:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:22
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:33
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:51
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 06:16
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 07:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 09:47
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 10:13
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 16:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:10
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:32
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:37
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:01
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:09
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Renerage on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 08 January 2007 02:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 06:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 08 January 2007 06:18
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Mon, 08 January 2007 11:56
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Renerage on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Mon, 08 January 2007 13:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 21:19
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 22:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: CarrierII on Tue, 09 January 2007 04:45
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 07:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Tue, 09 January 2007 10:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 11:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Tue, 09 January 2007 15:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Tue, 09 January 2007 18:03
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 19:38
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 16:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 16:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 17:02
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 17:09
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:53
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Tue, 09 January 2007 19:29
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:53
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 03:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Jimbo27 on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:33
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 04:02
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 04:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:16
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 12:58
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 06:45
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: CarrierII on Wed, 10 January 2007 11:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: reborn on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Jimbo27 on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:23
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:42
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:04
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Tunaman on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:07
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:31
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Wed, 10 January 2007 19:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:37
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:42
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:03
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:12
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Thu, 11 January 2007 00:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 18:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 18:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 23:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 23:23
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Kanezor on Thu, 11 January 2007 00:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Thu, 11 January 2007 05:40

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