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Re: Jesus [message #217757 is a reply to message #215250]

Wed, 06 September 2006 17:12

Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA

Karma:

Colonel

(Kinda makes you wonder about euthenasia and abortion, doesn't it?)

If I were more motivated, I would have continued on this course of discussion, but I'll just go ahead and give away what my point was in bringing up that subject. It'd be more strong, of course, had I gone along with what I was planning, but whatever; I don't feel lke dealing with it.

Here's another post I wrote on the APB forums from a thread about a similar subject (I don't see the reason to come up with something more original since it was about a similar subject) (Iscream4pork is an atheist):

Hydra

Iscream4pork

I believe that Atheism doesn't have an explanation for emotions, But

Quote:

the law written on the heart actually comes from the bible where, I believe Paul, noticed the gentiles were nice even though they were not of his faith, or more correctly i suppose--not Jewish. It is thought that everyone is born with this inner instinct, or that God intended it to be there...depending on what you believe.

I said this. Basically, almost all People areinherently are born with the sense to not treat other humans unkindly for no reason.

Like I said, You can say genetics or God either way. But that is how I think most atheists would argue that.

And I would argue that those emotions exist because we were created from, by, to, and simply for love, which is the central message of the entire Christian religion. We're here to love God and love people. That's why most of us feel at least a little guilty when we do something that might end up hurting another person. That's why we all feel so sorry when we see those pictures on TV of starving children in Africa and those ads asking for people to sponser a child and pay money to a Christian (there's that evil, oppressive religion again, shoving its beliefs down others' throats) organization that will provide that child with an education and basic medical care and opportunities that their parents maybe never had.

There is no evolutionary reason for those "feeling sorry for others" emotions to exist.

You may say it's because we needed them to survive early in our existence (which, once again, atheism cannot explain), and out of the bonds formed with other humans, complex societies evolved and solidified such emotions.
Let's take a look, however, at some other species that are almost as old as the human race and also exhibits a semblence of a society among members: the wolf.
Wolves are pack animals. They travel in groups so their chances of surviving in harsh conditions are better. They hunt in groups because they have learned that they have remarkable strengths in numbers; a small group of wolves could fight with a large bear, which would easily win in a one-on-one situation, and still emerge victorious simply because there were more wolves than the bear could handle. Wolves will fight viciously to protect their young; otherwise, the group cannot grow and will eventually die out. Wolves even have a bit of a heirarchy as to who is in charge, apparent in the leadership of the largest male, called the alpha male.
Yet these wolves do not necessarily share the same emotions humans do for one another. Do wolves experience or even know love? Of course not. They are driven by instinct and the need to survive. When an old and weak alpha male is challenged and beaten by a younger, faster, and stronger male, do the other wolves tend to the beaten wolf and lick his wounds? Of course not! They ostracize him from their society because he has been beaten by a wolf better than him.
In fact, it would be detrimental to the wolf pack if they kept the old dog because he would become a burden on the pack.
If I'm not mistaken, they do similar things not just to beaten alpha males but also their sick, decrepit, and physically handicapped. Think a wolf without a sense of smell carries much value to a wolf pack?

So what evolutionary sense would it make for us humans, who, apparently, are no better than other animals since we are animals ourselves, to care for our sick; to care for our elderly; to try to fix genetic disorders that are present in our gene pool; to try to fix foreign societies; to help our poor; to feel emotions that make us care about one another?

If you accept this world at face value and close your mind to all possible religion and accept no higher purpose other than to live for yourself, there is no reason to care about the suffering of others. You are supposed to sit back and let mother nature run her course through the human race and kill off those who are weak, who are debilitated, and who are of no value to society.

Oh well. That's as far as I'll go with that tangent.

We'll now return to our regularly scheduled bickering.

Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.

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[Updated on: Wed, 06 September 2006 17:14]

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[Message index]

		Jesus By: Fish on Fri, 25 August 2006 23:58
		Re: Jesus By: z310 on Sat, 26 August 2006 00:06
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Sat, 26 August 2006 11:59
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sat, 26 August 2006 01:22
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sat, 26 August 2006 03:35
		Re: Jesus By: Dethdeath on Sat, 26 August 2006 05:37
		Re: Jesus By: Renx on Sat, 26 August 2006 12:56
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sat, 26 August 2006 07:52
		Re: Jesus By: runewood on Sat, 26 August 2006 09:28
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sat, 26 August 2006 12:23
		Re: Jesus By: GoArmy44 on Sat, 26 August 2006 12:58
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Sat, 26 August 2006 12:54
		Conversation with an Atheist By: Hydra on Sat, 26 August 2006 13:07
		Re: Conversation with an Atheist By: Scythar on Sat, 26 August 2006 14:25
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sat, 26 August 2006 13:33
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sat, 26 August 2006 16:01
		Re: Jesus By: icedog90 on Sat, 26 August 2006 21:26
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 27 August 2006 03:01
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Sun, 27 August 2006 04:35
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 07:17
		Re: Jesus By: icedog90 on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:33
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 27 August 2006 14:16
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 28 August 2006 08:40
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Sat, 26 August 2006 13:43
		Re: Jesus By: DarkDemin on Sat, 26 August 2006 19:30
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sat, 26 August 2006 19:47
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sat, 26 August 2006 21:00
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Sat, 26 August 2006 21:25
		Re: Jesus By: DarkDemin on Sat, 26 August 2006 21:47
		Re: Jesus By: xptek on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:49
		Re: Jesus By: NeoSaber on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:45
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sat, 26 August 2006 20:44
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:06
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sat, 26 August 2006 22:22
		Re: Jesus By: glyde51 on Sat, 26 August 2006 23:56
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:17
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:26
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:35
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:41
		Re: Jesus By: glyde51 on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:28
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sun, 27 August 2006 00:58
		Re: Jesus By: pulverizer on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:35
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:44
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:53
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:58
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:10
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:54
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:12
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 08:40
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sun, 27 August 2006 14:27
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:14
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:32
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:39
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sun, 27 August 2006 21:51
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:16
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:22
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:56
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Sun, 27 August 2006 14:14
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 18:43
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 28 August 2006 01:41
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Mon, 28 August 2006 05:52
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Mon, 28 August 2006 02:16
		Re: Jesus By: pulverizer on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:28
		Re: Jesus By: runewood on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:55
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Sun, 27 August 2006 09:59
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sun, 27 August 2006 10:15
		Re: Jesus By: runewood on Sun, 27 August 2006 11:48
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Mon, 28 August 2006 10:37
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:56
		Re: Jesus By: NeoSaber on Sun, 27 August 2006 16:24
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Sun, 27 August 2006 18:36
		Re: Jesus By: IronWarrior on Sun, 27 August 2006 22:56
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 05:39
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Mon, 28 August 2006 07:01
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 07:31
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Mon, 28 August 2006 09:20
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 08:52
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 09:58
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:39
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 11:23
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Mon, 28 August 2006 11:44
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 12:13
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 13:09
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:15
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:23
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Mon, 28 August 2006 11:51
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Mon, 28 August 2006 11:59
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Mon, 28 August 2006 12:07
		Re: Jesus By: Jecht on Mon, 28 August 2006 12:26
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 12:37
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Thu, 07 September 2006 12:23
		Re: Jesus By: icedog90 on Mon, 28 August 2006 12:35
		Re: Jesus By: Aircraftkiller on Mon, 28 August 2006 13:21
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 13:37
		Re: Jesus By: Aircraftkiller on Mon, 28 August 2006 13:44
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Mon, 28 August 2006 13:46
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:08
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:19
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Tue, 29 August 2006 23:50
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 14:49
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 15:13
		Re: Jesus By: runewood on Mon, 28 August 2006 17:32
		Re: Jesus By: msgtpain on Mon, 28 August 2006 20:09
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Mon, 28 August 2006 20:21
		Re: Jesus By: msgtpain on Mon, 28 August 2006 20:37
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Mon, 28 August 2006 23:18
		Re: Jesus By: Aircraftkiller on Mon, 28 August 2006 21:44
		Re: Jesus By: DarkDemin on Mon, 28 August 2006 21:48
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Mon, 28 August 2006 22:17
		Re: Jesus By: ghost on Mon, 28 August 2006 22:42
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 28 August 2006 23:07
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 05:10
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Tue, 29 August 2006 07:40
		Re: Jesus By: Berkut on Mon, 28 August 2006 23:37
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Tue, 29 August 2006 06:41
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Tue, 29 August 2006 11:16
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:39
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Tue, 29 August 2006 04:06
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 07:21
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 07:59
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Tue, 29 August 2006 08:42
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Tue, 29 August 2006 08:47
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 08:49
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 11:31
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Tue, 29 August 2006 11:43
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:07
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:00
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:44
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:48
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Tue, 29 August 2006 18:06
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:46
		Re: Jesus By: Javaxcx on Tue, 29 August 2006 12:55
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Tue, 29 August 2006 13:24
		Re: Jesus By: Goztow on Wed, 30 August 2006 00:16
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 04:00
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Wed, 30 August 2006 07:52
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:22
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Wed, 30 August 2006 07:56
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:29
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Wed, 30 August 2006 06:04
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:16
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Wed, 30 August 2006 20:30
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 22:41
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Thu, 31 August 2006 04:48
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:06
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Wed, 30 August 2006 07:02
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:19
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Thu, 31 August 2006 03:07
		Re: Jesus By: Blazer on Thu, 31 August 2006 08:32
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Wed, 30 August 2006 07:58
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Wed, 30 August 2006 08:59
		Re: Jesus By: CarrierII on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:11
		Re: Jesus By: Oblivion165 on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:15
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:23
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 18:31
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:21
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:23
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 19:23
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:31
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Thu, 31 August 2006 18:18
		Re: Jesus By: DarkDemin on Thu, 31 August 2006 20:39
		Re: Jesus By: xptek on Thu, 31 August 2006 21:38
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Thu, 31 August 2006 21:46
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 21:32
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Fri, 01 September 2006 01:14
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Fri, 01 September 2006 01:52
		Re: Jesus By: Goztow on Fri, 01 September 2006 02:33
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Fri, 01 September 2006 07:08
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Fri, 01 September 2006 07:56
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Fri, 01 September 2006 08:52
		Re: Jesus By: DarkDemin on Fri, 01 September 2006 11:11
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Fri, 01 September 2006 09:02
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Fri, 01 September 2006 14:39
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Fri, 01 September 2006 21:33
		Re: Jesus By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 01 September 2006 21:52
		Re: Jesus By: Goztow on Sat, 02 September 2006 07:44
		Re: Jesus By: Dover on Fri, 01 September 2006 18:14
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Fri, 01 September 2006 18:43
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sat, 02 September 2006 00:39
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Sat, 02 September 2006 04:34
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Sat, 02 September 2006 09:54
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sat, 02 September 2006 22:02
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Sun, 03 September 2006 14:14
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sun, 03 September 2006 15:39
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Sun, 03 September 2006 22:00
		Re: Jesus By: Kamuix on Sun, 03 September 2006 22:21
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Tue, 05 September 2006 05:32
		Re: Jesus By: CarrierII on Wed, 06 September 2006 06:16
		Re: Jesus By: CarrierII on Sun, 03 September 2006 17:20
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Sun, 03 September 2006 22:17
		Re: Jesus By: thrash300 on Mon, 04 September 2006 18:16
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Mon, 04 September 2006 22:03
		Re: Jesus By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 06 September 2006 15:20
		Re: Jesus By: Hydra on Wed, 06 September 2006 17:12
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Thu, 07 September 2006 02:09
		Re: Jesus By: Fabian on Wed, 06 September 2006 18:22
		Re: Jesus By: cheesesoda on Wed, 06 September 2006 18:33
		Re: Jesus By: fl00d3d on Thu, 07 September 2006 04:03
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Thu, 07 September 2006 11:05
		Re: Jesus By: xptek on Fri, 08 September 2006 13:47
		Re: Jesus By: warranto on Fri, 08 September 2006 14:07
		Re: Jesus By: Berkut on Fri, 08 September 2006 21:57
		Re: Jesus By: xptek on Fri, 08 September 2006 22:01
		Re: Jesus By: Metal Vixen on Sat, 09 September 2006 04:43
		Re: Jesus By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 10 September 2006 04:49
		Re: Jesus By: Anonymous on Tue, 12 September 2006 20:41
		Re: Jesus By: jnz on Tue, 12 September 2006 23:59
		Re: Jesus By: Metal Vixen on Sat, 09 September 2006 04:50
		Re: Jesus By: Crimson on Wed, 13 September 2006 03:58
		Re: Jesus By: Scythar on Wed, 13 September 2006 04:25

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