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Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? [message #217127 is a reply to message #217111]

Sun, 03 September 2006 16:18

NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003

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Scythar wrote on Sun, 03 September 2006 17:30

True, but a passive sonar i.e. the observer, also has had a "ping" sent, just not by the observer itself, but some other entity. There's always a "ping", or in other words, a force that's applied to the observed, before it can be observed.

If force is applied to the observed, it becomes an observer of that force, and is therefore effected by it. Then it can take control, making itself the observed again, by changing the information being sent from itself. For example, stealth aircraft get "pinged" by radar, but they modify it so the radar tower doesn't see a proper return signal. The stealth aircraft, acting as the observed, manipulates its outgoing "information" to convince a radar tower that it isn't really there. The aircraft has the control because it has better manipulation of outgoing information than the radar tower does. It forces others to believe what it wants them to believe by controlling the way it is observed.

It's also possible for the observed to generate the force itself. If a star explodes, the shock wave it makes will destroy any observers around it. If a light bulb turns on, the light it generates allows observers to see it. Etc, etc.

Scythar wrote on Sun, 03 September 2006 17:30

Good point. On the other hand, do they *really* have the control over us, the observers of the video? They certainly can't make all of us react in the way they wanted to. In the end, it's us, the observers, who make the choice - consciously or unconsciously - of how we want to react to the video. Isn't it the observer that always gets to say the last word in how it observes the world?

When I say "control" I mean it a little bit figuratively. As the saying goes "information is power". The observed is the one who gets the chance to modify information. The observer just has to accept the information given. I don't mean accept as in "agree with". I mean it more like "absorb".

The people in the video may not be able to convince us, but only because previous bits of info we've received over our lives leads us to distrust or question the info they have provided. At the same time, we may be convinced because the info we've accumulated over our lives has led us to accept the information received as valid. It's the information we received over the course of our lives that forms our willingness to accept/decline future information. It's the sum of everything we've observed that determines our reactions. We're constantly being effected by everything around us and it influences everything we think. I should probably be working on stuff for RA:APB right now, but you sent out "information" (your post), that made me react to it. You exercised a degree of control over me. Even if I ignored you and didn't respond, the act of ignoring is still a reaction. It's taking me forever to write this because of spell checks and revisions for the sake of clarity. I only do that because previous information I have received indicates that I should take care in what I write. Big Grin

We might be able to decide how we view the world, but in that case we are being both observed and observer at the same time. As the observed, we send ourself an opinion about the information. As the observer, we accept our opinion. Even then, we're still basing that opinion on the information sent to us over our life.

NeoSaber

Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond

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[Message index]

		What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Sun, 27 August 2006 15:52
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Mon, 28 August 2006 17:18
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Mon, 28 August 2006 19:26
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Tue, 29 August 2006 17:57
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Tue, 29 August 2006 21:03
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:26
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:45
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Wed, 30 August 2006 20:27
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Wed, 30 August 2006 08:39
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Wed, 30 August 2006 13:36
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: msgtpain on Mon, 28 August 2006 19:32
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Jecht on Mon, 28 August 2006 18:59
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: warranto on Mon, 28 August 2006 19:07
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Javaxcx on Tue, 29 August 2006 15:34
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Hydra on Tue, 29 August 2006 14:19
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Tue, 29 August 2006 15:27
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Tue, 29 August 2006 17:43
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Tue, 29 August 2006 17:51
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Tue, 29 August 2006 18:26
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: xptek on Tue, 29 August 2006 22:32
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Hydra on Tue, 29 August 2006 22:34
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:28
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Wed, 30 August 2006 14:43
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:31
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:47
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: warranto on Wed, 30 August 2006 14:49
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Wed, 30 August 2006 14:54
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: futura83 on Wed, 30 August 2006 15:14
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: CarrierII on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:06
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Oblivion165 on Wed, 30 August 2006 16:07
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Wed, 30 August 2006 19:12
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Crimson on Wed, 30 August 2006 19:25
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Wed, 30 August 2006 19:26
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: xptek on Wed, 30 August 2006 20:07
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Wed, 30 August 2006 22:46
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Sniper_De7 on Thu, 31 August 2006 05:56
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:53
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:17
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Nightma12 on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:58
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: CarrierII on Sun, 03 September 2006 17:02
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: futura83 on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:24
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:30
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: warranto on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:36
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 15:24
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: futura83 on Thu, 31 August 2006 15:33
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Thu, 31 August 2006 15:51
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:28
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: futura83 on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:36
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:43
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Crimson on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:45
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Thu, 31 August 2006 16:48
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Fri, 01 September 2006 22:03
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Sat, 02 September 2006 09:54
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Sat, 02 September 2006 08:49
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Sat, 02 September 2006 10:46
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Sat, 02 September 2006 12:07
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: jnz on Sat, 02 September 2006 18:37
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Sat, 02 September 2006 19:44
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Sat, 02 September 2006 21:52
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Sun, 03 September 2006 01:52
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Sun, 03 September 2006 12:49
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Sun, 03 September 2006 14:30
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Sun, 03 September 2006 16:18
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Scythar on Mon, 04 September 2006 08:30
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: NeoSaber on Mon, 04 September 2006 13:30
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: msgtpain on Sun, 03 September 2006 11:16
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Mon, 04 September 2006 15:03
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Sat, 02 September 2006 20:17
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Blazer on Mon, 04 September 2006 15:09
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Mon, 04 September 2006 20:30
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Oblivion165 on Wed, 06 September 2006 19:35
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Thu, 07 September 2006 17:08
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Sat, 21 October 2006 17:41
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: Ryan3k on Sat, 21 October 2006 18:15
		Re: What The Bleep Do We Know!? By: z310 on Sat, 21 October 2006 18:35

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