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Re: hope none of you are them [message #210095 is a reply to message #207824]

Thu, 27 July 2006 17:33

Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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OK, here are a few questions that I can't seem to find an answer to:

1) Why did this perfect and unchanging God need or want to create a universe or the Earth or us? Please do not use "his plan" in your answer because it's a very flimsy excuse.

2) Why are churches allowed (presumably by God) to commit any number of sins in his name? Why hasn't God stopped this if he is omniscient and all-powerful? And if you give me a bullshit, unthought-out trained monkey response of "duhhhh free will" I will bitch slap you.

3) If God created the universe, who created God and why?

4) The universe has been around for about 13 billion years. It took about nine billion years before our Earth was formed, and single celled bacteria were forming ecosystems about a billion years after that. Life on Earth evolved and became more complex, as shown by the evidence for Earth’s history in its rocks and fossils. Then humans, God’s supposed reason for the whole creation, finally came along within the last 150,000 years or so — on one planet orbiting one of the trillions of stars. This seems like a lengthy, complex, massive, and apparently natural process for an omnipotent being that could have simply snapped everything (or just one magic planet) into existence. (This is copied from an essay by Mark Thomas, but I have often wondered the same thing) What is your response or explanation for this?

5) If we all know now that the Greek and Roman gods of the sun, fertility, thunder, etc. have had their functions and explained by science and have vanished in a puff of logic, then is it so far fetched to believe that since we haven't linked a scientific answer to the questions of "why are we here?" and "where do we go when we die?", that the Jehovah god is just as nonexistent as these ancient Greek and Roman gods and all the other hundreds of gods that have been invented by man over our existence?

6) This might be related to another question, but how can "free will" exist if God has a "plan" for us? How can I choose whether to turn left or right at a crossroad if God already has a "plan" that I will do one or the other?

The summarize, here is an interesting logical "proof" that God doesn't and can't exist. This is also from Mark Thomas.

Quote:

The Problem of Evil, or Theodicy
God also can’t be both omnibenevolent and omnipotent, because terrible events really do occur, and this all-loving god hasn’t prevented them. This is known as the Problem of Evil (also known as theodicy), and I think that it is one of the biggest problems for those attempting to prove the existence of the Christian god. How can anybody explain the existence of a loving, all-powerful god, while also knowing the bad things that happen to all of us and the terrible things that happen to far too many?

The ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus summed it up well when he wrote these ideas:

Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can and does not want to.
If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked.
If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?

And yet the idea of an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good god with free will won’t go away. So, here we are discussing this subject again. It’s good to remember that there have been over 2500 gods created by humankind. Monotheists don’t believe in all but one of them. Atheists don’t believe in just one more.

In fact, the existence of honest and kind Atheists is another proof that the Christian god, who demands belief, doesn’t exist. If this all-good god existed, it would want everybody to be saved — even Atheists. If this all-knowing god existed, it would know that Atheists just want real proof of its existence. If this god were all-powerful it would be able to give unambiguous proof of its existence. It hasn’t. Therefore this god doesn’t exist.

As I have shown, the concept of God is also logically contradictory; God not only does not exist but cannot exist. In short, God is impossible.

I'm the bawss.

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[Message index]

		hope none of you are them By: Torn on Wed, 12 July 2006 23:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Wed, 12 July 2006 23:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PlastoJoe on Thu, 13 July 2006 11:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkDemin on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Dover on Thu, 13 July 2006 00:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Viking on Thu, 13 July 2006 02:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Mad Ivan on Thu, 13 July 2006 04:22
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Sun, 23 July 2006 14:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sun, 23 July 2006 17:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Thu, 13 July 2006 05:49
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 13 July 2006 06:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Thu, 13 July 2006 09:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Thu, 13 July 2006 10:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 13 July 2006 07:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 13 July 2006 09:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 13 July 2006 10:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 13 July 2006 11:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Thu, 13 July 2006 12:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 13 July 2006 14:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Thu, 13 July 2006 20:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Halo38 on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 13 July 2006 15:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: $c0p3 on Tue, 25 July 2006 19:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 19:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: superj69 on Thu, 13 July 2006 20:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Thu, 13 July 2006 21:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:51
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 06:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 13 July 2006 22:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 14 July 2006 05:59
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sat, 15 July 2006 05:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Thu, 13 July 2006 22:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:59
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Dave Mason on Fri, 14 July 2006 07:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 07:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 14 July 2006 12:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 13:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 15:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 17:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 20:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 23:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Fri, 14 July 2006 20:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 00:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 00:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 01:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 01:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:50
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 17:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:25
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 13:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 15:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Sat, 15 July 2006 17:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:43
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sat, 15 July 2006 23:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sun, 16 July 2006 02:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sun, 16 July 2006 02:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Sun, 16 July 2006 11:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Doitle on Tue, 18 July 2006 00:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 05:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Doitle on Tue, 18 July 2006 11:35
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 12:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 12:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 15:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:01
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:13
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NeoSaber on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NeoSaber on Tue, 18 July 2006 14:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:54
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 14:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:54
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 19:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 19:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 21:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 18 July 2006 20:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 19 July 2006 04:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 July 2006 14:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 19 July 2006 15:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Sun, 23 July 2006 19:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 19 July 2006 11:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 19 July 2006 14:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 July 2006 15:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 19 July 2006 16:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: CarrierII on Thu, 20 July 2006 05:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 20 July 2006 06:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 20 July 2006 06:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Fri, 21 July 2006 21:52
		Re: hope none of you are them By: glyde51 on Sat, 22 July 2006 18:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: pirkel123 on Sat, 22 July 2006 23:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sun, 23 July 2006 00:25
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sun, 23 July 2006 10:34
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 15:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Sun, 23 July 2006 17:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 18:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:10
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Mon, 24 July 2006 03:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Mon, 24 July 2006 08:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Mon, 24 July 2006 12:34
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 22:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sun, 23 July 2006 23:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Mon, 24 July 2006 06:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Mon, 24 July 2006 01:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Mon, 24 July 2006 02:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Mon, 24 July 2006 04:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Mon, 24 July 2006 05:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Mon, 24 July 2006 07:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Mon, 24 July 2006 08:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Mon, 24 July 2006 09:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Mon, 24 July 2006 13:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Mon, 24 July 2006 14:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Mon, 24 July 2006 14:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Mon, 24 July 2006 15:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Mon, 24 July 2006 17:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 06:51
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 08:02
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 11:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 25 July 2006 08:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 03:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 26 July 2006 08:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 08:13
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 13:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 00:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 08:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 09:31
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:09
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 26 July 2006 12:41
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Wed, 26 July 2006 13:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 14:17
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Wed, 26 July 2006 15:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Thu, 27 July 2006 02:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Thu, 27 July 2006 08:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Thu, 27 July 2006 09:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 July 2006 12:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Thu, 27 July 2006 16:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 27 July 2006 17:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 27 July 2006 17:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Fri, 28 July 2006 00:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 08:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 09:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 10:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 10:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 12:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 12:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 14:02
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 28 July 2006 16:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 17:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 19:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 19:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Fri, 28 July 2006 21:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Fri, 28 July 2006 23:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: U927 on Sat, 29 July 2006 07:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: aveator on Wed, 02 August 2006 08:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Wed, 02 August 2006 16:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: xptek on Tue, 08 August 2006 21:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Tue, 15 August 2006 12:05

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