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Re: hope none of you are them [message #208267 is a reply to message #207824]

Sat, 15 July 2006 18:57

Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ

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There are many people who have, from time to time, been tempted to think for themselves -- who have found themselves questioning beliefs they inherited but really never examined. This is nowhere more apt to be the case than in the area of religious beliefs. Our religious beliefs came to us in a protective coating of age and respectability, like the invisible "force field" of science fiction.

It takes a degree of intellectual courage to penetrate this penumbra of sanctity and inspect a belief on its own merits. Still, many people have done so. They have found themselves asking such questions as, how do I know that this book called the Bible is the supernaturally revealed and infallible word of God? How do I know there is even such a being as God? How does anybody know there is such a thing as immorality? When people begin seriously to raise questions of this sort, they find that their "faith", that is, their accustomed belief-patterns, seem increasingly insubstantial.

To lose one's faith may seem, in prospect, like being turned out of a comfortable home and left to fend for oneself in a vast and trackless waste. Those with a persistent curiosity and adventurous spirit will never-the-less leave their cozy shelter and set out to learn for themselves what it is like "out there." Although their first steps may be taken "in fear and trembling," they begin to find that they are not alone. They discover stalwart companions. They learn, indeed that they are "compassed about" with a "cloud of witnesses." As their minds become strengthened by use, they begin to see what others have seen, that their "spiritual home" was in reality a prison; its walls were built of ignorance and fear, and reinforced by habit and custom.

No one is kept in this prison but by oneself; it is a prison where every inmate is his or her jailer. Everyone, aware of it or not, already has the key that will unlock the door: the freedom to seek the truth.

- From the book Secular Nation by Thomas Vernon
===
I have not read this book or know anything about the author, so don't get all ad-hominem on me.

However, the point stands. When (and if) you realize that this life is all you have and there is no great reward or punishment after you die, you are freed. Freed from fearing that who you love may decide your ultimate fate, freed from fearing that enjoying harmless pleasures won't condemn you to the imaginary pits of hell... As a child, the idea that this God person was there was told to me by my mom. Neither of my parents made me go to church more than a time or two, though I have attended at least a dozen sermons in my lifetime and attended Vacation Bible school twice. But even as a pre-teen, the whole god thing never stuck with me. It seemed like a weird story. Little did I know at that point how even intelligent people fell for this stuff and how deep this belief that some people have has gone back through the ages. Only recently did I really come to see clearly how religion was created by man to control people en masse, and as I discover people who I thought were intelligent being so the opposite, and so closed minded about religion.

It makes sense, of course. What better way to cement your religion than to convince the followers that non-believers are EVIL and are going to hell. Then if you hear common sense from us atheists you say the devil is speaking through us and shit. Such a beautiful near-perfect manipulation I see before me. I think less of you for falling for this shit, and you think less of me for not believing. What a beautiful situation that has been created, no?

I'm the bawss.

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[Message index]

		hope none of you are them By: Torn on Wed, 12 July 2006 23:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Wed, 12 July 2006 23:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PlastoJoe on Thu, 13 July 2006 11:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkDemin on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Dover on Thu, 13 July 2006 00:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Viking on Thu, 13 July 2006 02:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Mad Ivan on Thu, 13 July 2006 04:22
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Sun, 23 July 2006 14:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sun, 23 July 2006 17:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Thu, 13 July 2006 05:49
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 13 July 2006 06:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Thu, 13 July 2006 09:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Thu, 13 July 2006 10:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 13 July 2006 07:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 13 July 2006 09:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 13 July 2006 10:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 13 July 2006 11:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Thu, 13 July 2006 12:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 13 July 2006 14:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Thu, 13 July 2006 20:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Halo38 on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 13 July 2006 15:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: $c0p3 on Tue, 25 July 2006 19:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 19:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: superj69 on Thu, 13 July 2006 20:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Thu, 13 July 2006 21:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:51
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 06:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 13 July 2006 22:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 14 July 2006 05:59
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sat, 15 July 2006 05:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Thu, 13 July 2006 22:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:59
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 02:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Dave Mason on Fri, 14 July 2006 07:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 07:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 14 July 2006 12:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Fri, 14 July 2006 13:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 14 July 2006 15:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 17:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Fri, 14 July 2006 20:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Fri, 14 July 2006 23:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Fri, 14 July 2006 20:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 00:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 00:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 01:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 01:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:50
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 09:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 17:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:25
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 13:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sat, 15 July 2006 14:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 July 2006 15:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Sat, 15 July 2006 17:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:43
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sat, 15 July 2006 18:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Berkut on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sat, 15 July 2006 23:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: GrayWolf on Sun, 16 July 2006 02:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sun, 16 July 2006 02:53
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Sat, 15 July 2006 19:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sat, 15 July 2006 21:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Sun, 16 July 2006 11:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Doitle on Tue, 18 July 2006 00:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 05:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Doitle on Tue, 18 July 2006 11:35
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 12:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 12:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 15:24
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:01
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:13
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NeoSaber on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NeoSaber on Tue, 18 July 2006 14:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:29
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 13:54
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 14:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:28
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:54
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 16:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: cheesesoda on Tue, 18 July 2006 17:27
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 19:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Tue, 18 July 2006 19:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 18 July 2006 21:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 18 July 2006 20:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 19 July 2006 04:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 July 2006 14:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 19 July 2006 15:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Sun, 23 July 2006 19:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Wed, 19 July 2006 11:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 19 July 2006 14:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 July 2006 15:19
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 19 July 2006 16:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: CarrierII on Thu, 20 July 2006 05:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Thu, 20 July 2006 06:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 20 July 2006 06:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Fri, 21 July 2006 21:52
		Re: hope none of you are them By: glyde51 on Sat, 22 July 2006 18:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: pirkel123 on Sat, 22 July 2006 23:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Sun, 23 July 2006 00:25
		Re: hope none of you are them By: IronWarrior on Sun, 23 July 2006 10:34
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 15:21
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Sun, 23 July 2006 17:56
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 18:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:10
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Mon, 24 July 2006 03:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Mon, 24 July 2006 08:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: reborn on Mon, 24 July 2006 12:34
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:39
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Sun, 23 July 2006 21:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 July 2006 22:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Hydra on Sun, 23 July 2006 23:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Mon, 24 July 2006 06:11
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Mon, 24 July 2006 01:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Mon, 24 July 2006 02:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Mon, 24 July 2006 04:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Mon, 24 July 2006 05:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Jecht on Mon, 24 July 2006 07:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Mon, 24 July 2006 08:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Mon, 24 July 2006 09:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Mon, 24 July 2006 13:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Mon, 24 July 2006 14:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: jnz on Mon, 24 July 2006 14:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Mon, 24 July 2006 15:36
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Mon, 24 July 2006 17:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 06:51
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 08:02
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 July 2006 11:44
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 25 July 2006 08:45
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:04
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:26
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Tue, 25 July 2006 09:46
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 03:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 26 July 2006 08:23
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:12
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 08:13
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 13:15
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 00:57
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 08:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 09:31
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:09
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Wed, 26 July 2006 12:41
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Wed, 26 July 2006 13:16
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Wed, 26 July 2006 14:17
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Sniper_De7 on Wed, 26 July 2006 15:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Thu, 27 July 2006 02:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: PaRaDoX on Thu, 27 July 2006 06:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: KIRBY-098 on Thu, 27 July 2006 08:42
		Re: hope none of you are them By: DarkKnight on Thu, 27 July 2006 09:55
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:18
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Thu, 27 July 2006 10:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 July 2006 12:32
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mision08 on Thu, 27 July 2006 16:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 27 July 2006 17:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Thu, 27 July 2006 17:37
		Re: hope none of you are them By: JohnDoe on Fri, 28 July 2006 00:58
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 08:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 09:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 10:06
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 10:38
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 12:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 12:30
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:08
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 28 July 2006 13:47
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Fri, 28 July 2006 14:02
		Re: hope none of you are them By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 28 July 2006 16:48
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 17:14
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Crimson on Fri, 28 July 2006 19:20
		Re: hope none of you are them By: warranto on Fri, 28 July 2006 19:33
		Re: hope none of you are them By: mrpirate on Fri, 28 July 2006 21:05
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Fri, 28 July 2006 23:00
		Re: hope none of you are them By: U927 on Sat, 29 July 2006 07:07
		Re: hope none of you are them By: aveator on Wed, 02 August 2006 08:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Scythar on Wed, 02 August 2006 16:03
		Re: hope none of you are them By: xptek on Tue, 08 August 2006 21:40
		Re: hope none of you are them By: Javaxcx on Tue, 15 August 2006 12:05

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