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Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. [message #202354 is a reply to message #188804]

Sat, 03 June 2006 10:44

warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada

Karma:

General (2 Stars)

Quote:

Someone had to make the things that are outside of their control, so for sanity's sake, I assume that they don't try to screw you ever.

Right. But the idea is relating to the belief in someone that they aren't going to screw you, as you have no way of actually knowing if they will.

Quote:

How can they walk me through it? God never shows himself after the "holy book" is written...if you're aiming at the people who saw God in their steak, then...yea, I'd probably kick them in the nuts for wasting my time.

Of course, for that to be true, someone must have to foolishly follow the "seeing is believing" phrase. At least in relation to God not showing himself as people would expect.

I'm relating more to the idea of religous experts being able to walk you through their idea of proof for God's existance. The same as scientists, they rely on their own means to get you to believe them.

Quote:

That interpretation lead to people believing that it was the sun instead of the Sungod, that's all. The roots are found in Religion.

Most things have their roots in religion. That doesn't ignore the idea that it was supported and held true by science.

Quote:

What do you mean by "Why, then?"?

If you have to choose to believe things that can not be 100% proven, that you must trust that you are not going to be subject to a consipracy, why, based on that, does God not fit in to the same "subject to flaws, but does not mean its untrue" category?

[Updated on: Sat, 03 June 2006 10:48]

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		Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Tue, 07 February 2006 17:07
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Ryan3k on Tue, 07 February 2006 18:36
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: fl00d3d on Tue, 07 February 2006 18:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 07 February 2006 18:46
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Jecht on Tue, 07 February 2006 18:51
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Goztow on Wed, 08 February 2006 03:48
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Kamuix on Tue, 07 February 2006 20:08
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PointlessAmbler on Tue, 07 February 2006 21:21
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dr. Lithius on Wed, 08 February 2006 01:31
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Spoony on Wed, 08 February 2006 02:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: YSLMuffins on Wed, 08 February 2006 14:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 08 February 2006 16:29
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aprime on Wed, 08 February 2006 18:46
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Kamuix on Thu, 09 February 2006 08:27
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Toolstyle on Thu, 09 February 2006 11:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Renerage on Thu, 09 February 2006 23:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dave Mason on Fri, 10 February 2006 05:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Renerage on Fri, 10 February 2006 10:11
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Jaspah on Fri, 10 February 2006 12:26
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Kamuix on Fri, 10 February 2006 22:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Kamuix on Sat, 11 February 2006 16:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: runewood on Thu, 16 February 2006 12:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: ogreomg on Sat, 11 February 2006 14:51
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dave Mason on Sat, 11 February 2006 16:10
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: csskiller on Sat, 11 February 2006 16:24
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Nightma12 on Sat, 11 February 2006 16:36
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Toolstyle on Mon, 13 February 2006 12:10
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: csskiller on Sat, 11 February 2006 16:45
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: SCOTT9 on Sat, 11 February 2006 17:30
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: bandie63 on Sat, 11 February 2006 18:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: bigejoe14 on Sat, 11 February 2006 18:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: thrash300 on Wed, 26 April 2006 13:13
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: thrash300 on Fri, 28 April 2006 15:12
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Fri, 28 April 2006 12:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: thrash300 on Fri, 28 April 2006 15:10
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: mision08 on Sat, 13 May 2006 21:54
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Fri, 28 April 2006 19:50
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: SCOTT9 on Sat, 13 May 2006 14:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dave Mason on Sat, 13 May 2006 16:22
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Jecht on Wed, 17 May 2006 07:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Feetseek on Wed, 17 May 2006 21:12
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Thu, 18 May 2006 16:21
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Feetseek on Thu, 18 May 2006 18:50
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Fri, 19 May 2006 08:21
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Fri, 19 May 2006 08:52
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Fri, 19 May 2006 12:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Mon, 22 May 2006 23:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Tue, 23 May 2006 15:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Fri, 19 May 2006 12:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Mon, 22 May 2006 07:52
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 23 May 2006 04:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Tue, 23 May 2006 10:35
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Wed, 24 May 2006 22:12
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Wed, 24 May 2006 22:38
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Thu, 25 May 2006 07:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 10:27
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 23 May 2006 10:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Tue, 23 May 2006 11:02
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 23 May 2006 12:11
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Tue, 23 May 2006 11:36
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Tue, 23 May 2006 15:14
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 24 May 2006 03:39
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Tue, 23 May 2006 16:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Wed, 24 May 2006 07:45
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Fabian on Wed, 24 May 2006 15:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Wed, 24 May 2006 20:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 02:28
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 10:50
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: mrpirate on Thu, 25 May 2006 10:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 10:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 11:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 11:33
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 11:28
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Thu, 25 May 2006 11:58
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 12:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 12:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 12:11
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Thu, 25 May 2006 14:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 22:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 01:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Fri, 26 May 2006 18:35
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 01:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Sat, 27 May 2006 09:06
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 11:01
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Sat, 27 May 2006 16:25
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 14:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 14:15
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 25 May 2006 14:25
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Thu, 25 May 2006 14:36
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 01:41
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 26 May 2006 06:52
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 07:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 26 May 2006 07:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:32
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 07:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:04
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:39
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 09:54
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 09:59
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:49
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 08:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:15
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Fri, 26 May 2006 10:51
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Fri, 26 May 2006 18:36
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 01:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 01:49
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 27 May 2006 09:14
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 11:26
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 27 May 2006 11:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Sat, 27 May 2006 08:34
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 08:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 13:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 27 May 2006 14:39
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 14:52
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 27 May 2006 16:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Sat, 27 May 2006 20:56
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 28 May 2006 01:15
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Sun, 28 May 2006 15:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 28 May 2006 04:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 28 May 2006 06:46
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 29 May 2006 02:18
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 29 May 2006 02:17
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 29 May 2006 05:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 29 May 2006 08:48
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 29 May 2006 13:24
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 29 May 2006 15:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 29 May 2006 17:14
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 30 May 2006 02:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Wed, 31 May 2006 20:30
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 30 May 2006 06:18
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 30 May 2006 07:24
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 30 May 2006 07:49
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 31 May 2006 03:15
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Wed, 31 May 2006 05:54
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 31 May 2006 06:20
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Wed, 31 May 2006 07:58
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 31 May 2006 10:28
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Wed, 31 May 2006 15:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: mision08 on Wed, 31 May 2006 21:49
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 01 June 2006 03:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 01 June 2006 03:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Thu, 01 June 2006 04:56
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 01 June 2006 06:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Thu, 01 June 2006 06:39
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 01 June 2006 10:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Thu, 01 June 2006 11:23
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Thu, 01 June 2006 11:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 02 June 2006 02:28
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Fri, 02 June 2006 06:19
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 02 June 2006 07:00
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Fri, 02 June 2006 10:32
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Fri, 02 June 2006 11:48
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Fri, 02 June 2006 13:15
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Fri, 02 June 2006 13:24
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Fri, 02 June 2006 13:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 03 June 2006 05:41
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 03 June 2006 14:18
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Sat, 03 June 2006 10:44
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 03 June 2006 12:51
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 04 June 2006 01:43
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 04 June 2006 14:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 04 June 2006 16:08
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 04 June 2006 19:58
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 01:50
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Mon, 05 June 2006 07:10
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 08:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Mon, 05 June 2006 09:08
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 09:35
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 June 2006 12:48
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 05 June 2006 07:26
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 08:44
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 05 June 2006 08:48
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 09:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 05 June 2006 10:09
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 10:57
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Tue, 06 June 2006 07:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 05 June 2006 12:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 13:12
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 15:01
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 15:49
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Mon, 05 June 2006 17:02
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Mon, 05 June 2006 21:50
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Aircraftkiller on Mon, 05 June 2006 22:24
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Mon, 05 June 2006 22:34
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 06 June 2006 02:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 06 June 2006 07:34
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 06 June 2006 07:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 06 June 2006 14:16
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 06 June 2006 15:32
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 06 June 2006 16:31
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 07 June 2006 02:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Wed, 07 June 2006 09:14
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 08 June 2006 11:04
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Thu, 08 June 2006 14:45
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 08 June 2006 15:29
		Conversation with an atheist By: Hydra on Fri, 09 June 2006 23:22
		Re: Conversation with an atheist By: JohnDoe on Sat, 10 June 2006 01:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 10 June 2006 14:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 June 2006 14:42
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 10 June 2006 14:59
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 June 2006 15:13
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sat, 10 June 2006 16:10
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sat, 10 June 2006 16:56
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 11 June 2006 11:08
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 11 June 2006 11:20
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 11 June 2006 11:59
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Javaxcx on Sun, 11 June 2006 12:51
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Sun, 11 June 2006 12:54
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Mon, 12 June 2006 17:47
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 13 June 2006 02:03
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 13 June 2006 07:40
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 13 June 2006 09:00
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: warranto on Tue, 13 June 2006 11:53
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 13 June 2006 12:58
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: PlastoJoe on Tue, 13 June 2006 15:04
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Doitle on Tue, 13 June 2006 12:55
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Dover on Tue, 13 June 2006 13:22
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: OWA on Tue, 13 June 2006 13:25
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Tue, 13 June 2006 14:00
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Wed, 14 June 2006 03:07
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: Hydra on Wed, 14 June 2006 20:05
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 15 June 2006 01:37
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: DarkDemin on Thu, 15 June 2006 08:31
		Re: Protests over a cartoon... wtf. By: JohnDoe on Thu, 15 June 2006 11:20

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