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Re: Renegade Website [message #190848 is a reply to message #190846]

Wed, 22 February 2006 20:44

light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005

Karma:

Colonel

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

light, I completely disagree with you on about 6 different levels. Today's Web servers can handle any form or request you send them, along with thousands of others simultaneously; there is absolutely no reason to script something client side to "take the load off the server".

I don't have any stats to back up my opinion on that, so I won't argue it.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

The primary reason for client side validation is to ensure that the client is doing its job.. the client is half of the equation in a client/server environment, we don't live in the era of dumb terminals anymore.

We are moving back that way, look at Citrix or other systems that use virtualisation. You centralise the maintenance to the servers. It's one way to do it.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

There is no reason that a client can't take care of its own information: it can display it, it can validate it, it can tell you when you haven't completed something or completed it incorrectly. If you want to be proactive in ensuring data integrity, it's the clients responsibility to make sure that they're only sending in what the server expects to see.

And clients without Javascript? Clients who disable it? Clients without Flash? You alienate them, or force them to use the medium you choose.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

Your thinking is along the same lines as developers in the late 1990's - early 2000's: "We have to make sure that we don't exclude anyone in the world that may want to view our Web page."

People still believe that today. I work in an organistion that believes that exact statement. Where I live dial-up is still rife, so are 800x600 screens. I don't expect everyone to have Broadband and a 1204+ to experience my site proerly.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

You know what? technology expands, and the primary reason is because those same users expect to see something interesting, and something that will keep them coming back. We're no longer creating pages which fit in a 640x480 window so our Web TV friends can see it too.. if they're using Web TV: ****'em. I'm not going to limit my creativity to make sure the 0.15% of the population can see my page the same way everyone else sees it.

No, but i make 800x600 sites. You can get very creative with CSS I think.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

The browser makers have worked hard to perfect the DOM, to make it easy to access and manipulate data on the client side easily.. but you know what? You have to use JavaScript right along with it.. you can't just go "poof", and it's definately poor design to make a server call just to change something on your page.

Javascript can definately help validation, but if a client doesn't have JS what do you do?

I know companies that make JS that will gracefully degrade to work in IE4.

Besides, Flash games etc. are fine, but using flash for the navigation, and not having a fallback can lose you the 50 year old customer who has IE5, Windows 98SE and doesn't know how to install flash.

msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35

Developers are working hard to make it easy for you and I to make dynamic, interactive Web sites which keep our viewers coming back for more. If you don't intend on embracing that technology, you might as well set yourself up a BBS; or is that before your time?

Sounds like the .NET system to me. It can be all fancy and flash, and there are some great flash-based sites out there, but I prefer fast, clean HTML to flash which i have to wait to load. (256/128k broadband, it's very common over here).

Bottom line, we have 2 different view of how the web should look. Web 2.0 is fine, but it's not for me.

You of course have right of reply. If you would like to open a new thread, save confusing this topic, I am interested to see how this plays out. (If you make a new topic I will edit out this post and make it there)

http://www.azupload.com/displayImage.php/setid2745.png

[Updated on: Wed, 22 February 2006 20:45]

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		Re: Renegade Website By: Aprime on Sat, 18 February 2006 13:35
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		Re: Renegade Website By: Renardin6 on Sun, 19 February 2006 09:27
		Re: Renegade Website By: Mad Ivan on Sun, 19 February 2006 12:01
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		Re: Renegade Website By: kopaka649 on Thu, 23 February 2006 17:59
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		Re: Renegade Website By: light on Sat, 25 February 2006 17:27
		Re: Renegade Website By: Ma1kel on Sun, 26 February 2006 07:51
		Re: Renegade Website By: Goztow on Mon, 27 February 2006 00:47
		Re: Renegade Website By: light on Mon, 27 February 2006 02:58
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		Re: Renegade Website By: light on Mon, 27 February 2006 22:46
		Re: Renegade Website By: Goztow on Tue, 28 February 2006 02:06
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		Re: Renegade Website By: Renardin6 on Thu, 02 March 2006 03:10
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		Re: Renegade Website By: Renardin6 on Thu, 09 March 2006 14:45
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