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Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types [message #178299 is a reply to message #178292]

Mon, 07 November 2005 16:30

NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003

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Seeker wrote on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:13

While I'm not a fan of abortion I would much rather see a woman remove the "unborn" fetus before it gets to experience life, I'm sick of hearing about mothers drowning their kids in bath tubs, throwing them into rivers beating them to death etc etc.

Giving a child life then ripping it from them is the cruelest of all.

But it is a biological fact that life begins at conception. It's at that moment when your DNA is created and you physically become a distinct living organism. Regardless of when a child is killed after that moment, their life has been taken from them. Philosophical arguments on when sentience begins are immaterial to that physical fact.

I get sick of hearing about people who murder their children too, but I don't think the answer is to kill people at a younger age so we can't hear them scream when it happens. Then we are just making ourselves feel better instead of solving the problem.

Arcane1 wrote on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:22

The problem becomes where is the line of control that the State has over the Individual to be drawn? And how far into the Individual's life does the State have the right to interfere?

The state is obligated to defend people from harm they could otherwise not be protected from. Armies defend from invaders from elsewhere, laws defend people from being attacked by other people. A person becomes a distinct living organism at conception, there is no event later on that makes it come to life again. That gives the state an obligation to defend their life, just like it has to defend anyone else's life.

Even when Roe v Wade legalized unrestricted abortion in the US, it stated the right to live is paramount in this issue:

Roe v Wade

The appellee and certain amici argue that the fetus is a "person" within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment. In support of this, they outline at length and in detail the well-known facts of fetal development. If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case, of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment.

Legally, a person's right to live is considered above another person's right to privacy, or whatever. Even the court that legalized abortion acknowledged this, however they went on to ignore basic biology and declared 'the unborn' to not be human. If you want to talk discrimination and taking away rights, that's blatant age discrimination right there: An unborn child isn't old enough to be 'human' under the law. It's the same reasoning used to justify slavery: "They aren't human, they have no rights".

I would have hoped we could have learned from history about that kind of mindset, but it seems America is doomed to repeat that mistake over and over again.

NeoSaber

Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond

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[Message index]

		Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 16:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:44
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:41
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: swahbuckler on Sun, 06 November 2005 17:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 18:21
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 19:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:12
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:48
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Sun, 06 November 2005 20:55
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:14
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:57
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Dundasbro on Sun, 06 November 2005 21:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Sun, 06 November 2005 22:16
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Sun, 06 November 2005 23:32
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 01:40
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 08:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Mon, 07 November 2005 10:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 11:26
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: mrpirate on Mon, 07 November 2005 09:17
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Seeker on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:13
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 15:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:30
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: cheesesoda on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:04
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 07 November 2005 16:49
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 18:43
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:09
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:25
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Mon, 07 November 2005 17:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 08:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 06:52
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Ryan3k on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:33
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:42
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: warranto on Tue, 08 November 2005 07:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 15:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 08 November 2005 16:38
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Jecht on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:24
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 17:28
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:00
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 18:36
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:45
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: NeoSaber on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:37
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:47
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:56
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Doitle on Tue, 08 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Crimson on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:03
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 08 November 2005 20:22
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 15:35
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: johny roberts on Wed, 09 November 2005 16:11
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Hydra on Wed, 09 November 2005 19:58
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 15:59
		Re: I need some good Conservative/Republican types By: Arcane1 on Wed, 09 November 2005 23:33
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 01:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 07:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 13:32
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 02:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:21
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 08:02
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:41
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Kytten9 on Thu, 10 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Goztow on Thu, 10 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 10:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 16:36
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:10
		Re: Abortion [split] By: warranto on Thu, 10 November 2005 19:08
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:12
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 10 November 2005 20:53
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 10 November 2005 22:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:09
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:16
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 14:56
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Fri, 11 November 2005 15:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Fri, 11 November 2005 20:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 06:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sat, 12 November 2005 07:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sat, 12 November 2005 21:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Sat, 12 November 2005 22:13
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 00:43
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Fri, 11 November 2005 21:24
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: NeoSaber on Sun, 13 November 2005 12:58
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:39
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Sun, 13 November 2005 11:28
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Aircraftkiller on Sun, 13 November 2005 13:17
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 15 November 2005 16:03
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Javaxcx on Wed, 16 November 2005 11:49
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Tue, 15 November 2005 21:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Thu, 17 November 2005 00:11
		Re: Abortion [split] By: cheesesoda on Thu, 17 November 2005 13:55
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 14:31
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 16:35
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 17:26
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Jecht on Wed, 16 November 2005 18:46
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 16 November 2005 21:04
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Hydra on Thu, 17 November 2005 16:15
		Re: Abortion [split] By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 17 November 2005 18:05
		Re: Abortion [split] By: Arcane1 on Sun, 20 November 2005 02:18

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