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Re: Church of FSM [message #177693 is a reply to message #177658]

Thu, 03 November 2005 14:42

warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada

Karma:

General (2 Stars)

Crimson wrote on Thu, 03 November 2005 12:11

Then what role does God even have in your life? You don't pray to him, and you don't think he has a plan for you. All you concede at this point is that he may or may not know the future.

Quote:

Easy. it's the same reason why murderers are allowed to go free in the American justice system simply because a "right" of theirs has been violated. If you make exceptions for one person, the whole thing falls, or at least starts to fall, apart. If one persons "free will" is violated, then the entire system of free will fails, simply because we are no longer free. We have a forced set of rules imposed on us.

Easy? That's not much of an explanation. You've made a very interesting leap from rights violations to free will violations.

Quote:

The only reason I bring that up (at least for the purpose of this argument) is because you are stating that you KNOW God doesn't exist. That is all that I am challenging. I could care less if you believe that God doesn't exist, I could care less if you think that Satanism is "the way". That's your own choice.

Just don't claim to know things that you don't. At least not without backing it up with proof. And sorry, posting links about where the Christian religion got it wrong doesn't prove that God doesn't exist. It just proves where the Christian religion got it wrong.

I hope you're not implying that because I don't believe in God means I believe in Satan. You probably don't mean to imply that but to an outside observer, it sure would look like Moore-esque tactics. You don't believe in Santa, so I don't call you an asantaist. With that in mind, I'm not even technically an "atheist". I'm just normal. You don't believe in Thor, and neither do I. So are we athorists? No. In fact, once you understand why you don't believe in all the other deities that man has invented over the centuries, perhaps then you will understand why I don't believe in yours. Out of all those deities, I just believe in one less than you do, and somehow I'm the evil "atheist".

You say I can't claim to "know" there is no God. Maybe not by the definition you are pushing. But down to the very core of my being, with every bone in my body, I am absolutely sure there is no "God" as defined by ALL the major religions out there. Whatever or whoever started the Big Bang that created this universe has no bearing on the course of my life and has no influence or direction in the decisions I make. The Christian, Catholic, Muslim, and Greek gods all are equally fictional and ridiculous to me.

The role that God has in my life is that he exists. There is some power out there that we don't (and potentially can not) understand. He created and is the cause everything (even if he doesn't have a direct connection, ie. influencing the weather, sickness and disease, microevolution, etc.) and as such I acknowledge (or, more directly, believe) that he exists.

As for the leap from rights violations to free will violations: that was done because the principles of why they are there are similar to each other. Rights exist to keep us from taking advantage of others, while this is not the reason for free will, the result if they did not exist is similar to that of free will not existing. That being people would have nothing. We would be under a strict rule of someone who could dictate what we do as he pleases (be that God, or someone else).

And no, I'm not suggesting that you believe in Satan. All I'm doing is getting across that I don't care what you belive in, just don't suggest that you "know" the truth. Be that a belief for God's existance, or against God's existance. With your disbelief being from the "very core of your being", that tells me that you possess a very strong belief. However, that still doesn't mean that you know, wih an absolute 100% certainty (as that's is the minimum requirement for knowing) whether or not he exists.

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[Message index]

		Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 17 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 17 October 2005 23:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: spazbeast on Wed, 19 October 2005 17:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 05:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 October 2005 20:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: xptek on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 20 October 2005 07:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: bandie63 on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 10:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 15:43
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:01
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Thu, 20 October 2005 19:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 10:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 12:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 14:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 11:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Renerage on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:25
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:09
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:00
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Sun, 23 October 2005 23:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 07:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 24 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 03:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 25 October 2005 19:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Tue, 25 October 2005 05:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 06:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Tue, 25 October 2005 10:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Tue, 25 October 2005 17:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 26 October 2005 02:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 27 October 2005 02:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 06:50
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: DaveGMM on Wed, 26 October 2005 10:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 26 October 2005 18:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Thu, 27 October 2005 05:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 10:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 12:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 22:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: PointlessAmbler on Sun, 30 October 2005 00:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Fri, 28 October 2005 07:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: YSLMuffins on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 27 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Fri, 28 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Fri, 28 October 2005 06:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:13
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 16:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 30 October 2005 05:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Mon, 31 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 06:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 08:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 03:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 14:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 12:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 15:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 31 October 2005 22:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Tue, 01 November 2005 11:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 21:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 00:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 06:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:36
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 13:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 00:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Wed, 02 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 19:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 21:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 04:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 15:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 08:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 10:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 14:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:20

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