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Re: Church of FSM [message #177193 is a reply to message #175124]

Tue, 01 November 2005 06:38

Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA

Karma:

Colonel

Quote:

Negative proof
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The fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative is a type of logical fallacy of the following form:

"This exists because there is no proof that it does not exist."
Non-fallacious ways to prove something include the use of logical syllogisms and/or the incorporation of empirical observations. But it is not logical to argue that something exists simply because there is no proof to the contrary; one cannot say, "No one has proven that aliens do not exist. Therefore, based on that alone, they must exist, notwithstanding that I have no evidence that they do exist". Given (as it is above) that it was not proven that aliens do not exist, they might exist, but this alone does not prove them to exist.

Another common example is that, "A supernatural force must exist because there is no proof that it does not exist". However, the converse is also true, according to the Argument from Ignorance: One also cannot say that, "I have not seen proof that something supernatural exists, therefore a supernatural force cannot exist". Also, similar to the aliens in the above example, since no proof is available that this does not exist, it might exist, but this alone does not prove it to exist.

Here's another one for ya:

Quote:

Argument from ignorance
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The argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or argument by lack of imagination, is the assertion that if something is currently inexplicable to some people, then it did not (or could not) happen, or that if evidence of something has not been scientifically proven to their satisfaction, then it cannot exist. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is an adage used to explain that one's own "ignorance" (or, one's "absence of evidence") does not disprove anything (or, "is not absence of evidence"). In other words, mere personal belief, poor logic, or closed-mindedness masquerading as certainty is not logical.

This is similar to (but not the same as) the Argument from Personal Incredulity (also known as Argument from Personal Belief or Argument from Personal Conviction), where a person asserts that because they personally find a premise unlikely or unbelieveable, it can be safely assumed not to be true.

Aside from that, though, let me ask you, what happened a second before the billionth of a billionth of a second after the Big Bang? Did all the matter concentrated at that one point exist, or did it appear out of nothing (which science has proven cannot happen)? What caused it to explode in the first place? What was the cause of that cause? What was the cause of the cause of that cause, and so one infinitely if nothing outside the physical laws of this world exists?

Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.

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		Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 17 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 17 October 2005 23:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: spazbeast on Wed, 19 October 2005 17:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 05:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 October 2005 20:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: xptek on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 20 October 2005 07:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: bandie63 on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 10:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 15:43
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:01
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Thu, 20 October 2005 19:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 10:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 12:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 14:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 11:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Renerage on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:25
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:09
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:00
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Sun, 23 October 2005 23:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 07:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 24 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 03:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 25 October 2005 19:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Tue, 25 October 2005 05:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 06:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Tue, 25 October 2005 10:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Tue, 25 October 2005 17:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 26 October 2005 02:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 27 October 2005 02:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 06:50
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: DaveGMM on Wed, 26 October 2005 10:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 26 October 2005 18:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Thu, 27 October 2005 05:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 10:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 12:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 22:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: PointlessAmbler on Sun, 30 October 2005 00:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Fri, 28 October 2005 07:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: YSLMuffins on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 27 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Fri, 28 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Fri, 28 October 2005 06:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:13
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 16:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 30 October 2005 05:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Mon, 31 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 06:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 08:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 03:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 14:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 12:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 15:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 31 October 2005 22:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Tue, 01 November 2005 11:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 21:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 00:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 06:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:36
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 13:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 00:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Wed, 02 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 19:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 21:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 04:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 15:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 08:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 10:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 14:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:20

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