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| "...under God" [message #131657] |
Mon, 10 January 2005 13:53   |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma:
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Keep in mind though that there is a difference between separation of church and state (state matters should not be influenced by religion), and separation of church and the people of the state (not allowing christian christmas decorations to be displayed etc.). Just becareful that this debate about the pledge actually has to do with influencing state matters, and not simply the people.
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This is nothing like banning Christmas decorations in public (which, IMHO, is a retarded idea). That is how the Pledge was to begin with; the original pledge did not have "under God" in it. I do not doubt that there are people who think all mention of religion should be banned from public alltogether, but I will state plainly that I am not one of them. What I want is for the ORIGINAL Pledge to be used in place of its twice-revised first cousin that we have now.
Now, if you went and removed all mention of God from the Declaration of Independence, THAT would be wrong. Why? Because that is the way it was originally written. Once the words are altered, the meaning behind them is changed; this is what has happened to the Pledge over the years. Returningt he Pledge to the way it was when it was first written, to me, would be reviving a piece of history that seems to be completely lost to many people.
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Is this a matter to be endorced as falling under the category of tolerance, or is someone believing that God is in support of the state so bad that it can not be expressed officially?
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Tolerance has nothing to do with it. The Pledge is an oath of loyalty. You may believe that your God is in support of this country all you wish, but changing the Pledge so that it cannot possibly have meaning to everyone who gives it is, in effect, forcing that belief on anyone who is asked to say the Pledge. "under God" should never have been put into the Pledge to begin with; it should have been left in its original form. In that form, it is, as it should be, an oath of loyalty to the United States of America, not to an omnipotent God that many people do not believe exists.
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Remember, it's pledging allegiance to the flag and for what the republic stands for. The "Under God" part is simply the expression of the belief that God is in support of the country (as I mentioned above, but to reitterate), followed up by liberty and justice for all. The "Under God" phrase is sort of an extra put in. You're not pledging to God, just saying that God is supporting the country. There is nothing religious about it other than it refers to God's protection.
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The FLAG is what you are giving the Pledge to. The Flag is a symbol; it represents the connection between the country and the person giving the Pledge. Read the original Pledge again; it reads "I pledge allegiance to MY flag." That flag is meant to represent your loyalty and your love for your country. If God is included in that for you, fine. No one is stopping you from believing that. However, for myself and many others, that connection does NOT include God.
The Pledge is meant to be all-inclusive. It is meant for all citizens of the United States. In its current form, it excludes millions of Americans whose love for their country is as great as anyone else's- but because some politicians back in the 50's forgot that not all Americans believe in a single God (or any god at all), they are not covered by it.
You are arguing to keep the Pledge the way it is because you do not want its meaning to be lost- it would not be. If anything, the Pledge is meaningless because it has been changed so many times; in order to have it mean something real again, it should be restored.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sun, 09 January 2005 16:39 |
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"...under God"
By: Panther on Sun, 09 January 2005 16:51 |
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sun, 09 January 2005 16:54 |
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"...under God"
By: Panther on Sun, 09 January 2005 16:58 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sun, 09 January 2005 17:03 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: Panther on Sun, 09 January 2005 17:48 |
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"...under God"
By: glyde51 on Sun, 09 January 2005 17:48 |
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sun, 09 January 2005 18:30 |
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Sun, 09 January 2005 19:21 |
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"...under God"
By: rm5248 on Sun, 09 January 2005 19:34 |
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sun, 09 January 2005 19:52 |
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"...under God"
By: Panther on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:18 |
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"...under God"
By: NukeIt15 on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:37 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: Fabian on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:51 |
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"...under God"
By: glyde51 on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:56 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 03:53 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: Crimson on Mon, 10 January 2005 05:49 |
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"...under God"
By: Doitle on Mon, 10 January 2005 06:17 |
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"...under God"
By: glyde51 on Mon, 10 January 2005 06:54 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:17 |
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:35 |
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"...under God"
By: warranto on Mon, 10 January 2005 11:19 |
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"...under God"
By: warranto on Mon, 10 January 2005 11:30 |
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"...under God"
By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 10 January 2005 13:53 |
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"...under God"
By: Fabian on Mon, 10 January 2005 14:59 |
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"...under God"
By: warranto on Mon, 10 January 2005 16:22 |
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 19:45 |
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"...under God"
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Re: "...under God"
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Re: "...under God"
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"...under God"
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Re: "...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: rm5248 on Wed, 12 January 2005 18:10 |
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"...under God"
By: Hydra on Wed, 12 January 2005 19:14 |
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"...under God"
By: Doitle on Thu, 13 January 2005 06:30 |
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Thu, 13 January 2005 08:14 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Fri, 14 January 2005 00:03 |
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"...under God"
By: Jecht on Fri, 14 January 2005 20:22 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: icedog90 on Sat, 15 January 2005 15:21 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: Hydra on Sat, 15 January 2005 21:58 |
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"...under God"
By: warranto on Sun, 16 January 2005 00:59 |
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"...under God"
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"...under God"
By: warranto on Sun, 16 January 2005 12:15 |
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