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As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #128357]

Wed, 22 December 2004 07:35

SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003

Karma:

General (1 Star)

NeoSaber

Sleep deprivation, uncomfortable seating, and wearing hoods so you can't see for a while don't count as torture to me. I don't know what's up with the dogs, which is what I was trying to point out. The article just claims "use of dogs" not that they attack people. I've read that dogs are used to scare people, without attacking, so without evidence to the contrary I'm going to consider that to be the case here. I don't consider barking dogs to be torture. A little scary maybe, but not torture.

You have seen pictures from Abu Gharib of people being attacked by dogs, haven't you? That's what I would be led to believe is the most likely avenue. And torture is not just limited to being hit with a real big stick. Dictionary.com defines it as Excruciating physical or mental pain. That's what we were subjecting people at Abu Gharib to, and that wasn't the only incident, apparently.

NeoSaber

What happened at Abu Ghraib was abuse and torture. People being beaten and by some reports killed certainly qualifies as such. The people who did it are being punished. Those investigations and court martials were being carried out months before the story even "broke". The military even announced it, but since there weren't any pictures of the torture, no one in the media really listened. However, I don't see anything in this executive order Bush signed that authorized what happened there. Your initial post said Bush authorized torture, but the evidence you've cited says otherwise to me.

How do you know what's in the executive order if you haven't seen it? That's the whole point of this article, some people in the FBI leaked documents to the ACLU, and the ACLU went to court suing under the Free Information Act or whatever to ascertain whether or not there was an executive order, because all the evidence seems to point to there being one. And that's where we are right now.

NeoSaber

If there was a real cover up, documents would have been destroyed or never made to begin with. Keeping things secret for a time doesn't constitute a cover up. If I write myself a note and don't give it to anyone, I'm not covering it up. If I email a friend and don't announce the contents of the email to the world, I'm not covering things up. A lot of what the government does isn't released for years so current important information doesn't end up in the wrong hands. These documents weren't being "covered up" if they could get into the hands of the ACLU. They were probably just being shelved until the information in them was out of date.

These documents weren't intended to come out. They were leaked by federal employees. That's not the same thing as freely distributing them, FYI.

Crimson

OK, SFE says that the US has never tortured anyone before... and yet John Kerry testified to the Senate that we did in Vietnam... make up your mind you propagandist moron.

George Bush is the President, not the "President" whether you like it or not. Not even your pathetic party contest the results of the election. You are just showing your stupidity and ignorance when you do that.

I think YOU have lost your privilege of talking to ME because you are completely unable to believe anything unless it's written by a left-wing nutjob.

Why, yes, Crimson, that's why the Vietnam war was a bad war as well and we should never have sent our troops into it.

We really need a new thread to contest the 2000 Florida election, of which could not have been a very clean election, since they never counted all the ballots. And this year, just a couple days ago some anarchist hacker guy testified on the floor of Congress that a Representative [R] from Florida had paid him to back into the electronic voting machines.

But let's save all that for another thread.

gbull

SFE, they are questioning people with known terrorist ties not just iraqis, music is harmless if you are strong of will, Along with sleep deprevation. I myself THIS MONTH went 4 days with NO sleep, now i would bet that the people in question didnt even have to go that long. You go a little loopy after four days, nothing major. And I do not suggest blindly following our leaders but just NOT to question them ALL the time, when you do, nothing gets done. And SuperFlyingEngi, your a bad American because there is nothing patriotic in your views: no pride for America, no appreciation for your freedom, and nothing but whining like a little bitch about every little god damn thing Bush or the Republican party does.

Gbull, are you really saying that playing music incredibly loudly 24/7 doesn't amount to torture and that Iraqis are just sissies? Also, how do you know the people we are questioning have terrorist ties? You went 4 days in a row without sleeping? Somehow I feel to believe that. At all. And why do you bet the "people in question" didn't have to go that long? Why? WHYYYYYYYYYYYY?! Alright, it's time for you all to shut up about the "He-Doesn't-Agree-With-Us-So-He's-Bad" There will always be a place for the questioner in American politics, and it will never, NEVER, be a wrong one. And I must continue with the most obvious shard of all for my beliefs, the one which you apparently are bluntly ignorant of, that Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

I'm gonna go with T.J. before you. Sorry, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)

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[Message index]

		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:16
		Re: As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:20
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 21 December 2004 12:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: rm5248 on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Tue, 21 December 2004 14:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Tue, 21 December 2004 14:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Wed, 22 December 2004 00:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 22 December 2004 01:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 07:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 22 December 2004 08:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Wed, 22 December 2004 09:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 09:55
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 10:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Wed, 22 December 2004 11:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jaspah on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 23 December 2004 01:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 02:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 23 December 2004 03:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 06:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 07:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 23 December 2004 07:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 08:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 11:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 12:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Thu, 23 December 2004 13:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Thu, 23 December 2004 17:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 23 December 2004 18:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Thu, 23 December 2004 19:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 23:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 24 December 2004 01:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 24 December 2004 06:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Fri, 24 December 2004 07:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 24 December 2004 07:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 24 December 2004 12:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Fri, 24 December 2004 12:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Fri, 24 December 2004 13:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Fri, 24 December 2004 15:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 24 December 2004 16:36
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 27 December 2004 17:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 30 December 2004 04:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 10:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 11:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 12:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:10
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Deathgod on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 30 December 2004 15:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 15:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 30 December 2004 18:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 18:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Fri, 31 December 2004 06:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Fri, 31 December 2004 08:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 31 December 2004 13:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Fri, 31 December 2004 13:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 31 December 2004 14:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 31 December 2004 14:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 31 December 2004 15:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 11:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 12:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 12:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sat, 01 January 2005 13:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sat, 01 January 2005 14:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 15:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 15:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 19:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 19:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 21:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 21:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: msgtpain on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:10
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: ----- on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: ----- on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 06:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 09:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 09:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 12:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 12:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 13:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Ryan3k on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:20
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Sun, 02 January 2005 23:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 01:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Doitle on Mon, 03 January 2005 01:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Mon, 03 January 2005 02:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 05:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 07:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 09:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 09:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:30
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:46
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 13:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Mon, 03 January 2005 14:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 14:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 16:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 16:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 18:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 18:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 19:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 22:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 23:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 00:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 04:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 05:30
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 08:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 08:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 12:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 12:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 13:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 04 January 2005 13:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:22
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 16:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 16:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 18:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: splnwezel on Tue, 04 January 2005 20:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Tue, 04 January 2005 21:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Tue, 04 January 2005 22:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 13:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Wed, 05 January 2005 14:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Wed, 05 January 2005 15:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 17:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 18:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 18:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 19:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 21:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Doitle on Wed, 05 January 2005 22:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 06 January 2005 15:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 15:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 06 January 2005 17:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 17:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 06 January 2005 18:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 18:46
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 07 January 2005 01:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 07 January 2005 14:22
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Cassie on Fri, 07 January 2005 17:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Sat, 08 January 2005 02:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Sat, 08 January 2005 02:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Sat, 08 January 2005 03:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sat, 08 January 2005 06:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sat, 08 January 2005 09:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Cassie on Sat, 08 January 2005 19:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Sat, 08 January 2005 23:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 08 January 2005 23:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: prox on Sun, 09 January 2005 08:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 09 January 2005 12:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 09 January 2005 19:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Nodbugger on Sun, 09 January 2005 21:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 January 2005 22:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 03:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 10 January 2005 05:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 10 January 2005 15:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 19:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Mon, 10 January 2005 19:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 10 January 2005 20:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Wed, 12 January 2005 09:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 13 January 2005 19:27

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