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As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #128195]

Tue, 21 December 2004 14:11

NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003

Karma:

Recruit

SuperFlyingEngi

"Listening to dogs" is one way of putting being attacked by them. Those are all torture methods designed to make people lose their minds. It is still torture, don't pretend it's not. I'm sure you saw those pictures from Abu Gharib. Do you believe it counts as humane action? We went into Iraq first under false claims of weapons of mass destruction which we now KNOW are not there, and then started pretending we went in for humanitarian reasons, which is not at all how war was justified, where we claim to be removing a torturer. But now, we're torturing people and pretending we're not. Not very humanitarian, if you ask me.

Sleep deprivation, uncomfortable seating, and wearing hoods so you can't see for a while don't count as torture to me. I don't know what's up with the dogs, which is what I was trying to point out. The article just claims "use of dogs" not that they attack people. I've read that dogs are used to scare people, without attacking, so without evidence to the contrary I'm going to consider that to be the case here. I don't consider barking dogs to be torture. A little scary maybe, but not torture.

What happened at Abu Ghraib was abuse and torture. People being beaten and by some reports killed certainly qualifies as such. The people who did it are being punished. Those investigations and court martials were being carried out months before the story even "broke". The military even announced it, but since there weren't any pictures of the torture, no one in the media really listened. However, I don't see anything in this executive order Bush signed that authorized what happened there. Your initial post said Bush authorized torture, but the evidence you've cited says otherwise to me.

SuperFlyingEngi

Yes, it is a coverup. These documents were all leaked. Right now, the ACLU is suing to ascertain whether or not there was an executive order condoning torture, of which the administration is apparently trying to cover up.

If there was a real cover up, documents would have been destroyed or never made to begin with. Keeping things secret for a time doesn't constitute a cover up. If I write myself a note and don't give it to anyone, I'm not covering it up. If I email a friend and don't announce the contents of the email to the world, I'm not covering things up. A lot of what the government does isn't released for years so current important information doesn't end up in the wrong hands. These documents weren't being "covered up" if they could get into the hands of the ACLU. They were probably just being shelved until the information in them was out of date.

NeoSaber

Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond

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[Message index]

		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 19:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:16
		Re: As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: MilkyLep on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: icedog90 on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 20:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 20 December 2004 21:20
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 21 December 2004 12:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: rm5248 on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Tue, 21 December 2004 13:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Tue, 21 December 2004 14:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Tue, 21 December 2004 14:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Wed, 22 December 2004 00:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 22 December 2004 01:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 07:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 22 December 2004 08:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Wed, 22 December 2004 09:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 09:55
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 22 December 2004 10:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NeoSaber on Wed, 22 December 2004 11:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DarkDemin on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jaspah on Wed, 22 December 2004 15:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 23 December 2004 01:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 02:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 23 December 2004 03:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 06:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 07:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 23 December 2004 07:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 08:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 11:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 12:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Thu, 23 December 2004 13:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 23 December 2004 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Thu, 23 December 2004 17:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 23 December 2004 18:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Thu, 23 December 2004 19:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 23 December 2004 23:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 24 December 2004 01:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 24 December 2004 06:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Fri, 24 December 2004 07:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 24 December 2004 07:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 24 December 2004 12:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Fri, 24 December 2004 12:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Fri, 24 December 2004 13:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: xptek on Fri, 24 December 2004 15:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 24 December 2004 16:36
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 27 December 2004 17:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Thu, 30 December 2004 04:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 10:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 11:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 12:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:10
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Deathgod on Thu, 30 December 2004 13:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 30 December 2004 15:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 15:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 30 December 2004 18:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 18:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Thu, 30 December 2004 21:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Fri, 31 December 2004 06:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Fri, 31 December 2004 08:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 31 December 2004 13:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Fri, 31 December 2004 13:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 31 December 2004 14:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Fri, 31 December 2004 14:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 31 December 2004 15:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 11:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 12:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 12:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sat, 01 January 2005 13:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sat, 01 January 2005 14:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 15:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 15:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 19:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 19:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sat, 01 January 2005 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 21:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 21:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: msgtpain on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 22:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:10
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: ----- on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: ----- on Sat, 01 January 2005 23:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 06:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 08:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 09:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 09:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 11:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 12:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 12:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 13:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 14:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 15:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: U927 on Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Ryan3k on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Sun, 02 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 02 January 2005 20:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:20
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 02 January 2005 22:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Sun, 02 January 2005 23:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 01:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Doitle on Mon, 03 January 2005 01:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Mon, 03 January 2005 02:54
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 04:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 05:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 06:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 07:14
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 09:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 09:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 10:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:30
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 11:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:11
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:15
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:25
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:27
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:32
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 03 January 2005 12:46
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 13:39
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Vitaminous on Mon, 03 January 2005 14:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 14:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 16:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 16:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:24
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:37
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 03 January 2005 17:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 18:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 18:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Mon, 03 January 2005 19:59
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Mon, 03 January 2005 22:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 03 January 2005 23:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 00:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 01:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 04:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 05:30
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 08:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 08:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 12:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 12:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 13:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 04 January 2005 13:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:22
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:34
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 14:57
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 15:07
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 16:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 16:45
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: DaveGMM on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:00
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:17
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cowmisfit on Tue, 04 January 2005 17:49
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: warranto on Tue, 04 January 2005 18:16
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: splnwezel on Tue, 04 January 2005 20:51
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Tue, 04 January 2005 21:13
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Tue, 04 January 2005 22:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 13:28
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Wed, 05 January 2005 14:35
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Wed, 05 January 2005 15:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 17:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 18:41
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 18:58
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 19:21
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Wed, 05 January 2005 20:42
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Javaxcx on Wed, 05 January 2005 21:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Doitle on Wed, 05 January 2005 22:08
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Thu, 06 January 2005 15:44
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 15:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 06 January 2005 17:02
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 17:05
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Thu, 06 January 2005 18:12
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 06 January 2005 18:46
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Fri, 07 January 2005 01:50
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Fri, 07 January 2005 14:22
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Cassie on Fri, 07 January 2005 17:09
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Sat, 08 January 2005 02:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Aircraftkiller on Sat, 08 January 2005 02:04
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Crimson on Sat, 08 January 2005 03:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sat, 08 January 2005 06:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: SuperFlyingEngi on Sat, 08 January 2005 09:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Cassie on Sat, 08 January 2005 19:31
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Sat, 08 January 2005 23:52
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sat, 08 January 2005 23:53
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: prox on Sun, 09 January 2005 08:18
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 09 January 2005 12:19
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Sun, 09 January 2005 19:26
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Sun, 09 January 2005 20:06
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Nodbugger on Sun, 09 January 2005 21:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 January 2005 22:03
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 03:47
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 10 January 2005 05:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:29
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Spoony_old on Mon, 10 January 2005 10:33
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 10 January 2005 15:01
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Jecht on Mon, 10 January 2005 19:40
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: glyde51 on Mon, 10 January 2005 19:43
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Mon, 10 January 2005 20:23
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Hydra on Wed, 12 January 2005 09:38
		As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... By: Fabian on Thu, 13 January 2005 19:27

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